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Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by gopalv on Saturday December 03, 2022 @12:12PM (#33845046)
> Rarely is an awesome individual magically called upon to become a manager, particularly by poor managers who are already messing stuff up

There's a passage in Platos' Republic which is illuminating about this particular circumstance.

And I quote from [1].

""" And for this reason, I said, money and honour have no attraction for them; good men do not wish to be openly demanding payment for governing and so to get the name of hirelings, nor by secretly helping themselves out of the public revenues to get the name of thieves. And not being ambitious they do not care about honour. Wherefore necessity must be laid upon them, and they must be induced to serve from the fear of punishment.

And this, as I imagine, is the reason why the forwardness to take office, instead of waiting to be compelled, has been deemed dishonourable.

Now the worst part of the punishment is that he who refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by one who is worse than himself.

And the fear of this, as I conceive, induces the good to take office, not because they would, but because they cannot help --not under the idea that they are going to have any benefit or enjoyment themselves, but as a necessity, and because they are not able to commit the task of ruling to any one who is better than themselves, or indeed as good. """

Stuff that was true two millenia ago, still continues to be the same.

[1] - http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.mb.txt

Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by baruch on Saturday December 03, 2022 @01:05PM (#33845670)
The main reason I took my first management position was after I remembered the pain of refusing a previous offer and getting an awful manager to lead the team.

Though I do not think I'm very good at managing myself. Though I might be an OK leader.

Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by shanusmagnus on Saturday December 03, 2022 @05:25PM (#33848092)
In my experience, leadership and management are pretty disjoint. You can be good at one and not good at the other. Although, FWIW, I suspect that your introspection about whether or not you're a good manager means you're a lot better than you're giving yourself credit for.
Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by Eddy_Viscosity2 on Saturday December 03, 2022 @06:24PM (#33848572)
Agree, they are different. Middle managers particularly don't have to be leaders, and in many cases shouldn't be. But for things to work well, they do need to be good at management with all of the people skills, cat herding, and organizing that go along with it. In my experiences, the best managers were the ones who protected their teams from the whims of the 'leaders' at the higher levels. The worst ones were the ones who carried out their every wish without a second thought.
Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by lossolo on Saturday December 03, 2022 @03:21PM (#33846910)
I put your quote into ChatGPT:

This passage is discussing the idea that good people do not want to hold public office because they do not want to be seen as hirelings who are only interested in payment, or as thieves who are secretly enriching themselves at the expense of the public. The author argues that good people are not ambitious and do not care about honor, so they must be forced to serve out of fear of punishment. The worst punishment, according to the author, is the fear of being ruled by someone who is worse than oneself. This fear is what ultimately compels good people to take office, even though they do not want to and do not expect to benefit from it. The author suggests that good people take office out of a sense of necessity, because they are not able to entrust the task of ruling to anyone who is better than themselves.

Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by ancientworldnow on Saturday December 03, 2022 @04:41PM (#33847684)
Really excellent job illustrating chatgpt obliterates nuance, perfect for those unwilling to read beyond a paragraph and contemplate their lingering thoughts and questions.
Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by drekipus on Saturday December 03, 2022 @05:51PM (#33848315)
This reads like the pr comments of a junior on my team
Re:Steve Jobs Said the Best Managers Never Want to Be Managers by thenerdhead on Saturday December 03, 2022 @04:41PM (#33847696)
Great comment. I was reading a book about Lincoln recently and this exact sense of being compelled was upon him. Him as a politician had him saying things he morally didn’t agree with. Once he won the game, he was able to instill the spirit of his philosophy and do something above society’s morals which we look back upon making him one of the best presidents to date.