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Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by nl on Thursday December 22, 2011 @07:52PM (#3384074)
Not really.

If Google or Bing hadn't paid enough then it would be pretty easy[1] to raise the money from random investors.

There are precedents for that - Lycos (I think? or Infoseek?) raised capital after buying a default slot on the original Netscape browser with money they didn't actually have.

[1] Not saying that building a web scale search engine is easy, exactly, but I am saying that the default search engine for ~25% of the world web browsers is a business a lot of investors would want to invest in.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by bobthebee on Thursday December 22, 2011 @08:14PM (#3384128)
It's a great option to consider, but: * What matters is not just default placement, but actual share. How many would not switch to Google? Say hypothetically half which I think is generous. * That leaves them with the kind of share that Bing had prior to the yahoo deal. And bing was losing over a billion a year. * That still doesn't actually create a business model, because now they have create a search ad network to compete with AdWords. That's another tough problem - especially without scale.

So all in all I don't doubt they could raise some money, but chances of success would be extremely slim.

I don't think that Mozilla has a BATNA to Bing/Google which is why the economics are so different in each round. It's entirely based on Google and Bing bidding against each other.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by zobzu on Thursday December 22, 2011 @08:27PM (#3384158)
Investors don't invest if there are no shares to get. And, there are no shares to get. And that's the whole point of Mozilla's existence.

Thus, there's only such deals and donations. An investor would therefore need to donate, to support Mozilla.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by cpeterso on Thursday December 22, 2011 @08:33PM (#3384177)
I think nl was suggesting that investors could raise money to buy Firefox's search spot and then create a search engine. Imagine if some VC firm raised $301M to outbid Google and then signed a deal with DuckDuckGo.
Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by bobthebee on Thursday December 22, 2011 @10:13PM (#3384457)
If DuckDuckGo could really make $301+ M on search in Firefox, they would bid that. Reality, they can't. There is no value created in the imagined middle man investor.
Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by nl on Thursday December 22, 2011 @09:34PM (#3384350)
1) Create a company

2) Bid $300 million for Mozilla's search spot.

3) Raise $600 million, build search engine

4) Profit

(Yeah, in practice steps 2 and 3 would need to happen simultaneously)

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by dextorious on Thursday December 22, 2011 @09:58PM (#3384415)
Profit how? From your search engine?

99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet...

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by nl on Thursday December 22, 2011 @10:16PM (#3384462)
99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it.

I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults.

It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet

http://blekko.com/

http://duckduckgo.com/

http://www.gigablast.com/

http://www.yandex.com/

http://www.baidu.com/

There would be more if there was an easy way around the distribution problem. Becoming the default search engine in Firefox would sure help with that problem.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by dextorious on Thursday December 22, 2011 @10:51PM (#3384544)
"""99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults.""""

Then the evidence you've seen is wrong. If people "don't change defaults" how come they switched to FF in the first place, which is not the default browser on Windows, but is (or rather, was until it lost to Chrome) an extremely popular windows browser?

Maybe naive users don't change defaults, but those users are sticking with (duh) the default IE. Users that moved to FF are more likely to change defaults.

Also, they won't even have to change the default: they just navigate to google.com and search from there, instead of using the search in the toolbar with this unfamiliar "Bing" thing.

"""http://blekko.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ (...) """

Note the use of the word: "competent". None has results that good that make people actually want to switch to it. (For example, DDG's main selling point is privacy).

The only example I agree with, Baidu was made from a similar algorithm to Google's and with a remarkably similar history (RankDex vs PageRank etc). And even that is mainly popular in China for national/cultural/political reasons, methinks.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by nl on Thursday December 22, 2011 @11:30PM (#3384622)
So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default?

(Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by dextorious on Friday December 23, 2011 @06:39AM (#3385409)
"""So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default?"""

No, "my argument" was on the topic of the comment I specifically responded to.

You know, where you said that by getting the FF default search && making your own search engine, you'll "profit". To which I responded something akin to: "bollocks --even if you do that, FF users will just switch search engine back to Google".

It wasn't that hard to follow, check it again.

"""(Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)

Ever noticed how the "HN docs on formatting" say NOTHING about quoting?

"Italics", which you use, is not for quoting is for emphasis. Other people use your method, other people use ">", I use mine.

Re:Google Will Pay Mozilla Almost $300M Per Year in Search Deal by dextorious on Thursday December 22, 2011 @10:52PM (#3384548)
Oh, and another thing: people already switched MULTIPLE times from Yahoo to Lycos to Altavista to Google.

Pre Google people switched search engines all the time -as soon as a better one come along.