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Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by MBCook on Friday December 02, 2022 @12:02AM (#33826996)
> Utterly unthinkable, isn't it?

No. Ignaz Semmelweis faced it in the 1800s for daring to suggest (what we know know as germs) made people sick and hand washing could drastically reduce medical complications. He was able to prove it too.

By the end was locked up in an asylum for his ‘crimes’.

Want more recent?

How many stories have you heard of instruments or gauze or whatever left in surgical patients? Of operating on the wrong part or person?

People are fallible. But checklists help a ton. We know that for sure. Why is aviation obsessed with following them? Because they work to increase safety.

Surgeons have resisted them. I don’t know the current state of it, but they were making that exact “good surgeons don’t need it” argument. I remember it being a plot point on an episode of a medical drama (ER? Or maybe Grey’s Anatomy).

There are probably tons of other examples in other fields.

Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by p-e-w on Friday December 02, 2022 @01:13AM (#33827414)
Semmelweis is ancient history. He was active at a time when regulations and "best practices" simply weren't a thing anywhere.

Surgeons resisting checklists is new to me. Do you have a reference other than a TV show? My understanding until now was that checklists are extensively used in medicine.

Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by timeinput on Friday December 02, 2022 @01:43AM (#33827607)
Here are a couple articles to start pulling threads on

> Despite all the evidence, Gawande admits that even he was skeptical that using a checklist in everyday practice would help to save the lives of his patients.

> "I didn't expect it," Gawande says with a chuckle. "It's massively improved the kind of results that I'm getting. When we implemented this checklist in eight other hospitals, I started using it because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. But hey, I'm at Harvard, did I need a checklist? No."

https://www.npr.org/2010/01/05/122226184/atul-gawandes-check...

Not sure if this supports the reluctance idea since it says 93% use checklists, but most surgeons don't think it improves safety.

> Of the 353 survey respondents, 93.6% use SSCs and 62.6% would want one used in their own child’s operation, but only 54.7% felt that checklists improve patient safety.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221594/

Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by irishsultan on Friday December 02, 2022 @04:58AM (#33828652)
That first quote (as well as the rest of the article) supports the view that people tend to underestimate the usefulness of procedures they are not yet using and especially to overestimate their own abilities. It also shows that social pressure is the opposite of what it was in Semelweiss time, even people who feel they are above such things start using them (and then some of them get convinced that they were wrong).

The part you quoted from your second link directly contradicts your claim that most surgeons don't think it improves safety (even if the 54.7% is among the 93.6% that use it that still gives 51% that think it improves safety).

Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by gjadi on Friday December 02, 2022 @05:47AM (#33828895)
The usefulness of checklist in medical and the resistance to it is mentioned several times in The Checklist Manifesto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Checklist_Manifesto

Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by themenomen on Friday December 02, 2022 @11:17AM (#33832513)
That IS the central issue though, processes, techniques, and so on are not a THING until they are. And something has to change for that to happen.
Re:Memory Safe Languages in Android 13 by ilyt on Friday December 02, 2022 @06:19AM (#33829085)
We have smaller version of that with masks in pandemic. Cheap and easy means to reduce problem by a bit ? Nah, let's not do that /s