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Re:AI Art Panic by jabits on Friday November 25, 2022 @07:31PM (#33748557)
it’s only legal because there are no laws specifically making it illegal currently.

This is case with anything…anything not illegal is legal, at least in the US…

Re:AI Art Panic by vorpalhex on Friday November 25, 2022 @07:33PM (#33748569)
That is not quite correct. The question is undecided. It could be illegal and have been illegal this entire time.
Re:AI Art Panic by astrange on Friday November 25, 2022 @07:41PM (#33748627)
The fact there’s multiple companies with lawyers on staff already doing it should suggest you shouldn’t claim it’s illegal based on no evidence.

(It’s legal the same way Google Image Search is.)

Re:AI Art Panic by Retric on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:05PM (#33748778)
Why would you assume companies only do legal things? Companies break the law constantly it’s consequences law departments care about not legality.
Re:AI Art Panic by astrange on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:18PM (#33748859)
Legal departments are employed to tell you about legal risks, not to predict the future. Your corporate lawyer isn’t going to go “yeah that’s illegal but it’s totally awesome bro”. The execs might but not the lawyer.

In this case, the riskiest issue isn’t copyright, it’s that it can generate NSFW/CSAM, which governments and payment processors both get really upset about.

Re:AI Art Panic by Retric on Friday November 25, 2022 @09:14PM (#33749172)
It’s not about predicting the future. The point of communicating legal risks is to make assessments about which risks might be worth taking because complying with every single law is impractical.

It’s part of the basic structures where the legal team has an advisory role.

Re:AI Art Panic by VanTheBrand on Saturday November 26, 2022 @03:33PM (#33756416)
I mean thats exactly what Uber did though, and it’s very very common attitude in tech. This is also how Facebook functions in a lot of areas.
Re:AI Art Panic by BobbyJo on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:12PM (#33748824)
> Companies break the law constantly

That's obvious hyperbole and not a useful, or even factual, rebuttal.

Re:AI Art Panic by Retric on Friday November 25, 2022 @09:24PM (#33749233)
It’s factual in much the same way the average person breaks multiple laws as written every day.

Much of this is simple ignorance and many thing aren’t particularly relevant. 14 states still had sodomy laws in 2003 when the Supreme Court reversed its stance and declared them unconstitutional. At this point there are hundreds of years of crap at the federal, state, and local level much of which changes based on where you happen to be.

What percentage of the US laws have you actually read?

Re:AI Art Panic by PhasmaFelis on Saturday November 26, 2022 @09:22AM (#33752848)
I don't think it's hyperbole at all. Wage theft alone costs American workers billions of dollars every year.
Re:AI Art Panic by BobbyJo on Friday December 02, 2022 @10:04PM (#33840116)
I see two ways of interpreting "companies break the law constantly".

One, that there is always a company out there somewhere acting criminally. If that's the intended meaning, it is a factual statement, but doesn't not carry the original implication that companies do not try to avoid breaking the law. For instance, the fact that there is always a human out their somewhere committing crime doesn't not mean most humans do not actively avoid such.

Two, that any given company breaks the law often. This carries the implication that companies do not worry about breaking the law, but is also factually incorrect.

Re:AI Art Panic by VanTheBrand on Saturday November 26, 2022 @03:32PM (#33756400)
I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s legal because google image search is legal. Image search is legal because “thumbnails” and “image search” were decided by the court to be sufficiently transformative and in a different marketplace from “images.”

I could very easily see it being argued that “computer generated images” are in the exact same marketplace as “images” so already that case wouldn’t apply and new legal reasoning would be needed.

Re:AI Art Panic by BobbyJo on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:14PM (#33748829)
Which makes it legal. When the courts interpret law it addresses a case and informs going forward. I don't believe, for instance, people can be retroactively tried for abortions during the period Roe V. Wade stood.
Re:AI Art Panic by throwoutway on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:41PM (#33748994)
Pedandtly, this is not true. You might think something you’re doing is true, but when someone takes you to court, it’s because they’re arguing that what you’re doing is already illegal. And if the court sided with them, then what you were doing was illegal the whole time. Courts don’t make laws, they interpret existing laws. Everyone can interpret laws in their own favor, but it doesn’t make things ‘legal’ in the definitive sense
Re:AI Art Panic by oneoff786 on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:34PM (#33748950)
Roe v. Wade is a ruling that people have a right to abortions. Removing it removes the right. It doesn’t retroactively remove the right.

A new law that is passed doesn’t have retroactive power

A court ruling that the thing you’ve been doing for a year has been breaking an existing law can absolutely punish you for it. But it’s unlikely to punish random individuals doing things on a non noteworthy scale when a clear understanding of the law in a new context has not been established.

Re:AI Art Panic by aidenn0 on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:18PM (#33748856)
I'm not sure this is true; it addresses a case, which means the interpretation already is ex-post-facto. I don't know the answer, but it wouldn't surprise me if, in states with anti-abortion laws standing for which the statute of limitations has not expired, abortion providers could be held legally liable.
Re:AI Art Panic by fritztastic on Friday November 25, 2022 @08:44PM (#33749011)
Ex post facto laws are forbidden by the US Constitution, both at federal and state levels. [1]

At least, at this time, with current interpretation- "the Supreme Court has explained that people must have notice of the possible criminal penalties for their actions at the time they act" [2] (See also Weaver v Graham[3])

This might be subject to change.

[1]https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S9-C3-3-...

[2]https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S9-C3-3-...

[3]http://cdn.loc.gov/service/ll/usrep/usrep450/usrep450024/usr...

Re:AI Art Panic by aidenn0 on Friday November 25, 2022 @09:42PM (#33749350)
The laws are not ex post facto. They have been on the books, on some cases for over 100 years. States were not enforcing them, because they believed they were constitutionally prohibited from doing so.
Re:AI Art Panic by wokwokwok on Friday November 25, 2022 @11:02PM (#33749785)
> This is case with anything…anything not illegal is legal, at least in the US…

I think you're dancing around with words here. Let me be super specific:

There's no law specifically saying I can't use a jelly coated toasted to beat someone to death... but there are existing laws that cover 'beating someone to death'.

If you beat someone to death with a jelly coated toaster, you might argue for some obscure reason, your actions are not covered by the existing legal framework around beating people to death, but mostly likely you will not be protected by the claim you 'didn't know it was illegal' to do that.

...because the courts have not ruled that beating people to death with jelly coated toasters is legal.

ie.

a) There is no specific legal precedent or law around something but other laws related to it exist

and

b) Something has been determined to be legal by some precedent / law / whatever

Are not equivalent.

Regardless of what people want to believe, or have opinions one way or another, the assertion, made in the original article, that (b) was true, is not true.

Only (a) is true, and that is, legally, a much weaker statement.