The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Without Cutting Trees

Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by trgn on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @08:40AM (#33718945)

At the same time, USA has the oldest constitution, and east coast cities for all intents and purposes are 250 years old. If Europe's imperial capitals are essentially 19th century inventions, so are America's (Paris, NYC, Barcelona, Philadelphia, ... all ballooned to their dominant feel during the same decades). The biggest difference is that the brand that the USA is not old or has little heritage, has been along for so long that Americans and Europeans alike have internalized it. But in 2022, America _is_ an old country, and does have a lineage that stretches way back, all the way to antiquity why not.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @09:02AM (#33719156)

Just because the US happened to be founded in the Age of Enlightenment that doesn't magically grant us heritage back to antiquity.

And the argument isn't about the size of cities or political organization. But for reference, Philadelphia in 1790 had population 28k. That's on par with Paris around year 0 in the Roman era, or roughly year 1100 as the city recovered in the middle ages.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by hattmall on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @09:29AM (#33719506)

Would any of these have been the same people? Like is it conceivable the same family lineage in Paris 0-1100, or even 2k years to now or would the war, conquest, etc have changed the demographics considerably?

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @10:39AM (#33720514)

Lineage in terms of common ancestor and shared DNA? Of course. It’s pretty rare for invasions to result in the wholesale slaughter and replacement of a population.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by mrkstu on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:59PM (#33722424)

Well, depends- it’s actually fairly common in earlier ages. In the last thousand years or so a bit less, and last 100 basically not at all.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by tomrod on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @10:52AM (#33720707)

It's not American exceptionalism to show the similarities to Europe, simply a note of likeness. No need to be hostile to the notion of identifying intersecting attributes.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @11:42AM (#33721459)

We’re talking about the length of history, there’s no intersection.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by tomrod on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @12:07PM (#33721757)

Clearly there is, from the industrial revolution forward.

France tried to completely recreate itself several times during this period. By way of example, we no longer call it the Frankish lands nor the monarchy. Aggregate governance structures have changed tens of times, whereas the US really hasn't changed dramatically in the post Native American and post Revolution periods.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by fnordpiglet on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:09PM (#33722533)

I think give the US is a collection of independent states the massive growth of states in the 1800’s might count as another transformative period for the political institution, which has been relatively stable since the 1900’s with 5 state governments being established (most front loaded the ~first decade).

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @08:47PM (#33726980)

The French national identity goes back to Charlemagne, not merely de Gaulle.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by philwelch on Thursday November 24, 2022 @01:27PM (#33734627)

And the American national identity goes back primarily to the Anglo-Saxons.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Thursday November 24, 2022 @09:24PM (#33738501)

We fought multiple wars to sever those ties. Then allowed generations of non-Anglo immigration, not to mention slavery.

There are far more Americans who claim German descent than English. Irish, too. And Blacks.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by philwelch on Thursday November 24, 2022 @11:43PM (#33739266)

That’s one of the reasons I used the word “primarily”, which is a word that I would defend. Even if many Americans don’t personally have much English descent, the shared cultural narrative of the country starts there. The central complaint of the American Revolution was that the British were infringing on our traditional “rights of Englishmen”, which evolved over centuries. We’ve retained the English language and the English common law. Many of our cultural and regional variations to this day, even down to our regional dialects, can be traced to those that existed in different parts of England.

Also, please find a reliable citation that says that more Americans have African than English heritage. That strikes me as a very surprising claim.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Saturday November 26, 2022 @04:56PM (#33757199)

The US Census, self-identified ancestry.

1 German 46,403,053

2 Black/African-American (non-Hispanic) 38,785,726

3 Mexican (of any race) 34,640,287

4 Irish 33,526,444

5 English 24,787,018

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by dragonwriter on Saturday November 26, 2022 @05:01PM (#33757238)

One consequence of American, especially historical, racism (including things like the one-drop rule) is that the experience, and over time the identity, of people (and thus their descendants) who were Black and something else tend to be heavily weighted on the Black side.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by brnt on Friday November 25, 2022 @02:17AM (#33740047)

Napoleon, in case you studied the subject. The history of Franks and France is certainly not one of direct descendence, nor was there such a thing as a nation or national identity at the time of Charlemagne. Did you know the only surviving Franconian language is Dutch?

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by fnordpiglet on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:05PM (#33722491)

There are ancient indigenous civilizations that continue to this day in America, or do we deny their history is part of the history of America? The history of the political Germany is very short if we are talking about established political institutions.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @08:42PM (#33726941)

Yes, we worked very deliberately to eradicate those indigenous civilizations, and finally isolate what remained of them from white America.

I’m not sure why people keep bringing up political institutions when the conversation is clearly about cultural institutions.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by tomrod on Friday November 25, 2022 @11:12AM (#33743737)

As the numerous other commentators have identified, people are bringing up politicl institutions because your key point proposing differentiation is defined by political institutions, such as the American revolution, but fails to account for continuity and evolution of cultural institutions that persist beyond those changes. Like continuity of the tossed salad blend of Americans.

But, my original comment to you is that noting continuity and shared evolution of cultural institutions between America and Europe during the industrial revolution is not American Exceptionalism, and isn't really something to have umbrage regarding when others note it.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by relaxing on Saturday November 26, 2022 @04:53PM (#33757174)

Well the revolution was ostensibly the founding of America so that seemed the place to start the discussion of American identity. But it’s a fair point that the actual beginnings were was earlier, somewhere between 1607 and 1776.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by fnordpiglet on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:03PM (#33722466)

I always found these statements interesting. Heritage follows a cultural lineage that doesn’t attach necessarily to political institutions. Much of Europe’s political structure post dates the US. The heritage of the US is extraordinarily rich and inherits the heritage of the entire planet as cultures have immigrated and integrated. We have very clear direct heritages to England, Ireland, Italy, Germany, France, China, India, Japan, Russia, Greece, to name a few. Every American city has a “town” for these cultures. Are they not our heritage? How can they possibly not be?

Japan has a very clear monoculture heritage for a very long time. But part of British heritage is Roman occupied England is it not? Germany shares a heritage with Prussia. Much of the world has some Mongolian heritage, don’t they? You can see the influence not just in genetics but in art and culture. How is that not their heritage?

If this is true, then perhaps the issue isn’t that America has no heritage, but that it is so comprehensive that it’s impossible to pin it down to something as distinct as a monoculture?

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by Archelaos on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:29PM (#33724123)

> Much of Europe’s political structure post dates the US.

I do not think that one can make such a claim objectively. There is a whole lot of prejudice hidden behind the word "much". Political structure simply cannot be quantified. There are elements that were earlier in the US. There are elements that were earlier in Europe. Some elements were earlier in Europe, but given up inbetween and readopted later. Some elements are unique to the US, some to Europe. Some elements have changed so much during their history that you may either claim that they represent a very old system or a very new one. (For the latter: Is present day Vatican the oldest political institution in Europe, because it can trace its origins to Antiquity, or is it one of the youngest, because it was formed with the help of Mussolini?) -- One needs to tell stories of origin, not impose inappropriate metrics.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by leipert on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:46PM (#33724319)

As a European it just seems weird that sometimes the heritage that is a few generations old is pulled out of thin air in order to give some meaning in the modern day. If your family migrated to the US in the 1800s, you ain’t German, Irish or French no more. Yes, we have the same heritage, but the fork happened so long ago, that you cannot relate to the experience of something that happened later in Europe or elsewhere. Similarly how I cannot go to some German-heritage community in the US and relate to everything they lived through.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by hnhg on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @09:51AM (#33719787)

I've spoken to people from some parts of the world where they have talked about a "recent" govt or king and then found out they were talking about 300 years ago, which was wild. Their collective sense of history goes back thousands of years. I would really recommend the chance to speak with people from Rome, Cairo, Damascus or Beijing (amongst many others, these are the first that come to mind) who love their local history, and you will get a sense of history that goes back a long way than a lot of people (myself included) can comprehend.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by yencabulator on Thursday November 24, 2022 @12:12PM (#33733674)

Only Americans think 250 years is old. My home town is closer to 600 years old, and the nearby castle started construction about 750 years ago.

The local history can be traced straight to the stone age.

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Re:The Ancient Japanese Technique That Produces Lumber Witho... by theodric on Thursday November 24, 2022 @06:40PM (#33737434)

There are buildings in the United States that are older than the United States, but this does not somehow make the United States less valuable than a building

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