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Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by jerf on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @09:37AM (#33623659)
"I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill."

I'm curious... do you not understand why this person was fired? Do you think it was because he corrected Elon? That is not the relevant part of the statement.

If I publicly corrected my CEO, and did it with a soupcon of arrogance to boot, I would expect to be fired. I do not work for Elon, and I make this statement independent of whoever I happen to be working for right now.

Moreover, it would not just be because the CEO had his precious fee fees hurt and he was lashing out in anger. There are perfectly sensible business reasons why it is an unacceptable risk to have someone running around publicly "correcting" the CEO while having a position within the organization. There are even legal reasons, with regard to what public statements made by an employee can legally commit the company too, and the kinds of ammunition it can hand to any future lawsuits. (Making public statements like this is not exactly like taking the stand in your own trial without a lawyer, but it's not entirely dissimilar from it either!) There is no way my value to the company, no matter how good I am, could overcome the business risks associated with such a loose cannon. It is way easier to destroy than to create. Even the best creator can't help but be able to destroy more than they can create. Businesses can't afford some random guy to anoint himself the face of the company just because he write code goodly.

Like Elon, hate him, I don't care. My feelings are decidedly mixed and probably trend negative overall, though not to the extent the HN gestalt would necessarily like, and for different reasons. But if you look at this interaction in befuddlement, you need to understand what's really going on and remove your hatred from Elon from the equation, because you need to know that you, too can get fired from your job for doing the exact same thing, even if you work for a company that isn't run by Elon. In fact most people who understand this sort of thing would see the CEO not firing you as being a show of extreme weakness from the CEO.

I mean, if that's how you want to go out, by all means, be my guest. There's a time and a place for it. Maybe you would personally judge this as one of them. I don't, "nuh-uh we don't make that many RPC calls for that" is not the hill I would choose to die on, but there are hills worth dying on; "whistleblowing" looks a lot like this and can be very valuable to society. I'm not saying this is never a valid move; I want the reader who is befuddled by Elon firing this person to understand the why, and that it is not even remotely Elon-specific, so that if you ever choose to do this sort of thing, at least your model of what is likely to happen in the world is accurate. I have no problem with people making bold choices, heck, I think our society is too risk averse to bold choices, but I think people ought to have accurate understandings of the cost/benefits of such choices.

Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by dd82 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:35AM (#33624788)
>There are perfectly sensible business reasons why it is an unacceptable risk to have someone running around publicly "correcting" the CEO while having a position within the organization

especially when the CEO is spouting a ton of bullshit and doesn't want his aura of perfection impigned in any way.

Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by guardiangod on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:38AM (#33624854)
Exactly. I've publicly face-to-face buttheaded with the CEO of a very large tech company (that you have 100% heard of) at a very large townhall meeting. I did it because it's an internal event so my chance of getting fired is significantly lower (but still not zero!)

But doing it in public, sharing internal data, and with the tone the guy used on a brand new owner? I don't know what he expected. Getting fired is the expected outcome.

Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by runamok on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:57AM (#33626368)
I think you are broadly correct. However, recall Elon's takeover of Twitter was all about "free speech" so in my opinion it's a bad look. A "bigger man" would say "put some time on my calendar and I'd love to hear more". I value flat hierarchy companies where you don't just blindly kowtow to your leaders.
Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by jerf on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @12:22PM (#33626807)
If you think this is about "kowtowing", you're still totally in the wrong headspace and completely fail to understand the situation.

Elon basically can't not fire the guy. It wasn't even an option, so criticizing him for failing to take the non-option is missing the point. It wouldn't have been an option for Jack, it wouldn't have been an option for any other CEO. You don't get license to speak publicly for the company just because you don't like the CEO.

If anything, sorry to the HN gestalt, this is a prime example of just how out-of-touch with reality Silicon Valley liberals have become, that they are so secure that they will be protected because they have the "right opinions" or hate the "right people" that they be surprised that they are fired for mouthing off in public at the company CEO. So disconnect from reality that they have a 180 degree wrong read of the situation. And this is not special. It is completely and utterly a mundane fact of life. This person isn't being specially persecuted by the horribleevilElon. This person is just living a normal life the rest of us live, and as I said, there are indeed good and sensible reasons people live this way. Anyone who is just shocked, shocked by this firing is very out of touch with the entire rest of the world, and I'm trying to help at least a fraction of such people reconnect with reality before this bites them personally.

Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by themacguffinman on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:05PM (#33634819)
This is a pretty context-free take on the matter. Elon Musk effectively slandered the engineers on the team with incorrect technical statements that implied they were incompetent. He told all future employers that the engs from Twitter did something stupid that they didn't actually do.

It might make sense for the company to fire employees for public corrections, but it also makes sense for the employees to correct these lies for their long term career prospects. This entire scenario was created by Elon Musk. Your context-free take implies that the employees damaged the company unnecessarily when it was a reasonable reaction to targeted slander. Avoiding the liability of this public correction was easy, none of these employees were new, what was new was Elon's unprovoked slander. Maybe if you don't want the legal liability of an employee saying things that might be ammunition, don't do it to them first.

If you want to know what happens when this kind of slander goes unchecked, look up Mick Gordon. On top of his professional reputation being muddied, he received harassment and death threats over a company's false allegation that he was responsible for the incompetent failure of the Doom Eternal soundtrack.

Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by licebmi__at__ on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:47PM (#33630307)
Good point, now do one for the ones who were fired for complaining on internal communication.
Re:Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon? by spoils19 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:24AM (#33636282)
Great speech, explain this one: https://twitter.com/skilldrick/status/1592525923475390464

> My twitter account was protected at the time, so I can only assume this was for not showing 100% loyalty in slack. I’ve heard the same thing has happened to many others now.

No public corrections, only internal Slack messages.