Elon hate is strong on this site

It’s like the Trump hate, irrational and all encompassing.

Why do you think the trump hate is irrational? What is the main rational points and reasons you like Trump? Or at least, think that he is being unfairly treated, since that does not require liking/agreeing with him.

Fwiw I understand why people despise Don. But I don't understand the blind dedication to hate, especially when other politicians and leaders pull similar shenanigans and then there's crickets.

If you're violently against X or Y that's fine. But apply the rules evenly, fairly, and rationally. When you hate so hard and so long that you lose your compass...that's irrational.

The majority of Trump haters fall into this bucket.

> But I don't understand the blind dedication to hate, especially when other politicians and leaders pull similar shenanigans and then there's crickets

Do feel free to share examples of other politicians mocking disabled people, or bragging about sexual assault, or trying a coup or any of the millions of transgressions of trump and not facing any criticism.

So unless someone uses the exact words, it's ok?

The hate is too strong in you and yours.

Hard pass. Have a nice day. And yeah, thanks for proving my point.

Mocking disabled people is bad. Bragging about sexual assault is horrific.

But let's talk about the stuff politicians do that is truly wrong and evil, like waging wars that kill people?

Let's talk about the War on Terror and how many people died. Remember that the media and government sold the American people a bunch of lies to sell these wars.

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/ir... 100,000+ civilian deaths

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/af... 70,000+ civilian deaths

Thanks for mentioning regime change, which coups do you blame on Donald Trump from this list? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

yeah, one of the real big issues are the government enabling alot of these wars and the dependency of a large part of the economy on the military-industrial complex, the morals thereof and the corruptional influence of the entities which want to further gain through military-industrial means, or justify it as as necessary at this point wrt. the economy.

Meanwhile, the focus is on anything but the MIC. The MIC loves distractions. Trump Hating being one of their faves.

Sadly, this is true, distractions are a tool which have been well used as subterfuge. And the fourth pillar of democracy have been bought, and most of the rest just spew badly written clickbait. It's hard to have a good government when people are not well informed or educated, to see things more broadly, question things and relate them to historical events. The thing is, it's hard to question things if you don't have a good framework, which has to be more than just navel-gazing. Some only see what is immedietly in front of them, and feed into the emotional side of things as a distraction.

That's my point. His conduct is bad. It deserves to be called out. But that's no excuse to forgive loads of things just because:

- the media doesn't make an issue out of it

- it's been normalized

The irony is, the loud broken-compass hypocrites are part of the problem. They're not speaking truth to the prevailing powers. Power who have set the stage for Trump and his ilk. Don is a symptom. It's foolish to obsess over a symptom while the root causes get a free pass.

I’m not aware of any other politician that attacks people from his own party for having names that “sound Chinese”.

You're right. Instead he should have shamelessly claimed his Peace Prize and then proceed to bomb the sh*t out of Afghanistan - often killing civilians - all the while keeping that I'm so lovable smile on his face.

Or, he should have told you how wonderful he was for signing the Paris Climate Agreement, yet - per Naomi Klein and others - it was a nonsense agreement (i.e., nothing binding, soft commitments, etc.). And then on his watch of 8 yrs, USA fracking production ramps up to the point of the USA becoming a net exporter of fossil fuels. How green is that?

And these things compare how to your example? You have lost your compass as well.

But thank you for proving my point.

I understand that there's frustration and a lot has to do with the focus on hate or being hated, that's where the rhetoric seems to land at least.

I would say, if the hate was completely irrational, or you think that the other politicians are just as bad, then that is not ok either. Since two wrongs does not equal right, and actions should not be seen as a balance scale of 'doing equally bad things to each other', which somehow rationally makes it ok to do bad things in what seems to be a hateful way. It should not be accepted to do bad things, no matter the party, the opposition or person.

So if you think Trump is doing bad things, and the other party is doing bad things as well, rejecting both Trump and the other party seems like the logical option given the options? You don't have to belong to any camp/party, it's a hurtful illusion/rhetoric IMO, 'us or them'.

And if you think the current other politicians are doing bad things as well, I'm genuinely interested to know what bad things they are, and not just things which can be seen as political disagreements. Because I I just don't know what you are thinking about when you say it specifically, it's as simple as that, not ill intentioned. But I can understand if you do not wish to air your opinions.

But I'm under no illusion that on both sides of the parties there are and have been bad actors and corruption, which has been ongoing in many forms, which must be fought no matter where it is. I'm just afraid that when you 'weigh evil' as a justification you lose nuance, and people are more likely to fall into the tribalistic rhetoric equivalent of 'mud slinging' or just calling 'hate' which I find sadly unproductive.

I despise the man, but if you are shifting a long held position/opinion just because you don’t want to be in an opinion alignment with Donald Trump, that to me is irrational.

I saw a lot of folks do this over the last six years. I found that really strange.

no that's not it, I have opinions as well, I didn't say I didn't have them. I wanted to hear a genuine opinion and tried to ask a stranger for it, is that so bad? For some people, maybe behind the hateful rhetoric some of them see and some of them do, there would be other reasons for their alignment, maybe good reasons which in actuality would have nothing to do with Trump, and could be debated as political issues on their own merit, and is it wrong to be curious about that?

The problem is that people immedietly put people into either against or with, and the whole rhetoric is so tribalistic since it always ends up being so emotional as well. Instead of talking about interesting issues, it's just these one dimensional soundbite opinions.

But what do you really mean? You think that hearing a person out without immedietly announcing my political stances is wrong? Could the issue be that you are tired of injustice and think of people as 'enablers' immedietly if they are not in opposition?

In the spirit of openness, I don't have problems admitting my politicals views, I never liked Trumps political agendas or the person himself. And I think what he did is not ok, and I'm bewildered that he hasn't been brought to court, or gone to jail. Doesn't mean I can't hear other people's opinions without shouting my alignemnts first, which seems unproductive tbh.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear, but I think you may have personalized my generalized comment. Let me illustrate my perspective differently.

A person thinks the sky is blue. Then Trump publicly says “the sky is blue”. This person now makes the point to say “the sky is NOT blue” just because Trump agreed with their original opinion. What I find irrational about some people’s reaction to Trump is that they feel compelled to change because Trump might agree with them.

Well, the whole reason for asking in the first place is to find something I could relate to which could stand on its own, whether Trump said it or not. I think you are reading too much into it, I'm mostly an outside observer interested in the whole situation and curious why there's such a divisive and emotional component to it. From what I gathered, talking about him in any way is greatly unproductive, because you have people making assumptions about what you do or don't do immediately, instead of just trying to understand where the other person is coming from with their argument to begin with. The whole thing just seems like a toxic subject, and I'm curious how the American people get out of all this in a few years, or if it will tear your country apart even more. But it will affect us all globally.

My perspective is that Trump is as much a reaction to toxic politics as a cause of…although he definitely perpetuates and elevates them. For every elevation there seems to be a counter reaction from the other side that has to elevate it further. This is what is tearing the country apart.

I can only hope that the middle gets sick and tired of the extremes of both sides and starts voting in a way that makes the extremes reflective on their own behavior.

There is rational people who disapprove or criticize Trump or Elon, but people who fall into the "hate" camp seem to have fallen for the loudest voices lacking reason or logic.

As a Canadian, I am not on either side, so I don't actually like or support Trump. Sometimes he is funny, sometimes his antics expose the folly of others, and sometimes he is a stupid brute.

As an outside observer, it is easy to see that Trump is not treated the same as others, and my observation is that pattern is being repeated with Elon.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by not treated the same as others?

Elon only cuts 3K. He also well known to cut people for a decade. His tussle with previous board dragged for more than 6mths. People should be aware and should have been preparing 2nd route. Mark Zuck on the hand misled people from the very beginning which just 2 mths ago had zero intention to retrench. And he did it so sudden with 11K (and this is only phase 1, there are at least 2 more phases before end of 2023). Personally I would "hate" Zuck several magnitude before hating Elon....and I really dislike Elon public antics.