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Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by tgtweak on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:05AM (#33590647)
Why can't exchanges operate without putting customers funds at risk and leveraging crypto for collateral...

Seems silly buy is there no exchange that is happy to just make a transaction fee?

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by JumpCrisscross on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:33AM (#33590818)
> Why can't exchanges operate without putting customers funds at risk

In finance, bad actors outcompete good ones absent regulation. The game is one of confidence and compounding. Until the music stops, venues promising higher returns bleed well-run ones dry. Add to that crypto’s Gresham’s law-esque nature, which selects for gamblers against financial markets, and you wind up with little market space for well-run exchanges. (Which have never been actual exchanges, but instead quasi broker-banker-money market funds.)

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by dmitriid on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:57AM (#33590949)
> In finance, bad actors outcompete good ones absent regulation.

Not just in finance. Everywhere.

With crypto we just see all this happening real fast, in real time.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by JumpCrisscross on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:05AM (#33590994)
> Not just in finance. Everywhere.

It seems more prevalent in finance. In the real economy, consumers show scepticism. They’re trading money for a good or service they get at or shortly after the point of sale. Financial and insurance products are more difficult to diligence; you don’t know what you’re getting (or not) until long after purchase.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by germinalphrase on Monday November 14, 2022 @08:15AM (#33593472)
Products can hide all sorts of “bad acting” in the supply/manufacturing chain. Companies that are willing and able to [use indentured servants, etc] will be able to sell a product cheaper than a competitor that holds themselves to higher standards.

The appearance of ethics/morals might be a benefit, but true ethics/morals are often a cost.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:04AM (#33594022)
That's because finance is virtualized, so it's more efficient to transact in than containers of goods.

Amazon.com shows how the goods market is as bad it can be when transaction costs decrease.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by justin_oaks on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:16AM (#33590726)
"We're making good money, but we could make MORE money" says crypto exchange operators.

... and Microsoft and Apple incorporating ads into their paid products

... and Google updating Google TV with ads where there were none before

... and laptop companies filling their laptops with bloatware

... and plenty of others

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by Gigachad on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:07AM (#33590657)
Because everyone in the crypto space is a scammer or a moron.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by radicaldreamer on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:09AM (#33590670)
Coinbase seems to be the exception here
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by pavlov on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:14AM (#33590714)
Coinbase has racked up $2 billion in losses for 2022 already, so I’m not sure about the “not morons” part. At this rate a bankruptcy is not out of the question.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by radicaldreamer on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:23AM (#33590766)
That loss is due to R&D and headcount spend though, they're not using customer funds to make crypto bets.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by papa-whisky on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:33AM (#33590820)
I think the point is that coinbase is struggling to compete when there are tons of exchanges out there offering low/no fees and ludicrous interest payments on coins kept on the exchange. Even if those other 'exchanges' do all seem to be turning out to be ponzi schemes... For whatever reason people keep flocking to the next one.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by rightbyte on Monday November 14, 2022 @05:40PM (#33602392)
I have realized that being a ponzi scheme is a feature not a bug in the crypto space. A chicken race to pull out as late as you dare.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by xwdv on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:59AM (#33590956)
There’s still time.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by narrator on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:16AM (#33590725)
Because they think they are banks and all banks fractionally reserve. Fractionally reserving is not a law of nature, it's a scam that only works because the fed can print money as needed to bail out banks when there's a bank run. If you can't just print money whenever, it always fails.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by csomar on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:11AM (#33591024)
That's a misconception. Banks don't fraction-reserve out of thin air. They need a collateral (which is why banks require it for a loan).
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by narrator on Monday November 14, 2022 @06:37AM (#33592663)
Credit cards are collateral free. In contrast, when people get medical bills they also owe debt, but the hospital didn't create any money.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by csomar on Monday November 14, 2022 @08:20AM (#33593512)
I don't think so, the bank will need to collateralize these debts somehow (ie: Lenders). The yield on CC debt is high.

For medical bills, that's a false and yet correct analogy. The hospital did, in theory, create money out of thin air (at least from an accounting perspective). In this case, it is the hospital (ie: The investor) who will go under if the patient does not pay her bill.

And that's fine. Investors are in it for yield which carries risk. This is different from putting money on an exchange or a bank. You are looking here for a store, unless you willingly signed up for some yield thing.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by narrator on Monday November 14, 2022 @10:53AM (#33595810)
The bank created money because the borrower can use the money to settle other debts. When the creditor that the debtor repays with the credit card deposits those payments in bank accounts they become bank deposits in other banks.

The hospital patient cannot settle debts with his medical care that he received or deposit it in a bank.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by seydor on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:18AM (#33590733)
why can't banks do that? because it can't work, even though economists have convinced the world that it can, and supplicate the losses by stealing taxpayer money or making wars

crypto is supposed to be one bank for every person. don't know how we get there, but we are learning that traditional bank/exchanges should not exist

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by valdiorn on Monday November 14, 2022 @06:12AM (#33592508)
You have drawn a very incorrect conclusion from this whole process.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by marban on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:14AM (#33590706)
That was the official plan.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by simsspoons on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:11AM (#33590683)
The dexes are fine?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by RC_ITR on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:18AM (#33590731)
The dexes are scams. Liquidity providers have very little incentive to actually provide liquidity (most just don’t understand their risk profile)

“Impermanent loss” is just losing to arbitrage. It’s a necessary feature of being an LP.

People just don’t notice how much they are losing b/c the prices are so volatile.

The ruse won’t last forever.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by EGreg on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:30AM (#33590797)
0.03% is a ludicrously small amount to make for losing to arbitrageurs. It may work with lots of sideways action but crypto tends to go in one direction for a long time so most LP's lose.

For that matter, though, a lot of people who buy the top lose.

Crypto needs to have more UTILITY. The financial sector in general is just overleveraging the normal economy, this isn't just crypto. Ironically, Bitcoin was started in response to the 2008 financial crisis, where the govt repealed Glass-Steagall and then bailed out the banks. At least here, the government isn't bailing anyone out with taxpayer dollars.

And look... in China it's not much better. Their real estate bubble is very reminiscent of 2006 USA ... Evergrande is just the most well known poster boy.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by lupire on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:08AM (#33594081)
It's impossible for crypto to have real-world utility because transaction costs are too high.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by RC_ITR on Monday November 14, 2022 @11:57AM (#33597077)
Said differently: The financial system has trended toward centralization over the past 5+ centuries, because there are obvious advantages to it.

One could argue that there are plenty of downsides to over-centralization (i.e. 'Too big to fail'), but the solution is not to start from scratch, it's to logically think about the kind of financial system we want (given the one we already have) and build that.

Conversely, the answer is not be techno-cowboys who know people with cryptography degrees who re-discover what bank runs are.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by joosters on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:14AM (#33590710)
The ones that haven't (yet) been hacked, anyway...

Besides, which ones really are decentralized? Can you name one that doesn't have a central control point? Most have an update system, allowing one person to either completely modify the smart contract code or to enable/disable trading.

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by easrng on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:09AM (#33591018)
AFAIK Uniswap doesn't have an upgradeability proxy, they just deploy new versions and the old ones stay up. That's only true if you aren't using a L2 though, all the current L2 implementations are upgradable.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by joosters on Monday November 14, 2022 @07:00AM (#33592826)
Looks like you're right - Uniswap v1 is still usable, they had 'proxy' contracts that could redirect users to more recent versions, but you can, if you choose, interact directly with the original version - it wasn't turned off. However, since the liquidity all moved into the later versions, there's only about 1/1000th of the trading left in the original. (and you get to keep/be exploited by all the unpatched bugs, yay!)

Uniswap v1 volume: $144k, v2: $111,784k

Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by tsimionescu on Monday November 14, 2022 @01:13AM (#33590700)
Do any of them operate with dollars or euros?
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by Yizahi on Monday November 14, 2022 @06:14AM (#33592529)
DEXes, also known as self-paying bug bounties? They won't last for long.
Re:Mass of Transactions Leaving Crypto.com Wallets by bandrami on Monday November 14, 2022 @02:26AM (#33591108)
Because there's no money to be made in just being a clearinghouse so nobody does that