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Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by spamizbad on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:44AM (#33570668)
CEOs are also going to face significant budget scrutiny and will have to really justify signing a 10 year lease (which won't be cheap) instead of investing in things that are proven to drive growth.

Class A office space outside of super expensive cities runs about $35/sqft on average. Employees need about 175 square feet each. So every employee is $6125 more expensive -- but that's only assuming you're renting someplace turnkey, which you probably aren't, so even if you cheap out at an additional $100/sqft ($17,500 per employee) for a custom build-out (one-time cost, but still).

Where is all this money coming from? If your business is perfectly functional remote, with capital costs being what they are, why would you do this?

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:57AM (#33570751)
Your figures sound about right, based on my experience.

In London, the cost per employee I’ve used is £15k pa. That includes office space and maintenance, taxes, plus IT costs, entertainment, HR, etc.

The cost for fully remote employees is £9k pa. That is, the cost of the office is £6K per employee.

There are additional costs for remote employees, like remote support. But these balance against not having to buy office furniture, pay for cleaning, etc.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by bitcharmer on Saturday November 12, 2022 @02:30AM (#33570933)
> The cost for fully remote employees is £9k pa

I'm really surprised by such high figure. How was this clalculated?

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Saturday November 12, 2022 @02:38AM (#33570963)
I didn't personally calculate it, or see exactly how they came to it. But I know it included things that all employees need, whether remote or not, plus a few things specifically needed by remote employees. For example:

* Laptop

* Accounts like email, Slack

* Entertainment (e.g. Christmas party)

* HR (this covered specific HR services like payroll, not the whole thing)

* IT support

* Travel expenses

* Home working budget

* Training

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by lozenge on Saturday November 12, 2022 @03:33AM (#33571255)
They did say it includes taxes, maybe they are including a 3% pension contribution or even Employers' NI which can run to 12% of salary.
Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Saturday November 12, 2022 @04:13AM (#33571468)
The taxes I mentioned are part of the cost of running an office - especially local government taxes ("rates" in UK parlance).

The £9K figure _doesn't_ include taxes on individuals, such as NI and pension contributions. That comes from a different budget, and is typically an extra 25% on top of salary.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by benj111 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @05:52AM (#33571949)
25%?

Employer NI contributions are ~1/2 that. What other taxes do employers inccur?

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:13AM (#33572045)
I lumped a few costs onto that, which aren't taxes, but are tied to salary. Pension contributions, life insurance, health insurance, for example - these all come out of the same budget as national insurance contributions.
Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by nivenkos on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:07AM (#33572015)
But in London you have to pay those employees more if they're paying to commute (and wasting hours of their day on the packed trains every day), buy food in the city, etc.

I really can't see it being worth it in massive, overpriced cities.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:58AM (#33572266)
Absolutely, there are hidden costs, in both directions.

If you only hire within the pool of people who are willing and able to commute to your office, you'll both need to pay more and have less choice. Workers are more tired as they spend hours commuting every day.

On the other hand, it's harder to develop juniors if all your seniors are working from home. Written communication lacks context that helps difficult conversations move forward. Silos build up as people in different teams never see each other.

In the long-term, I believe the broader benefits to society and the planet mean fully remote working will become almost universal. In the meantime, a hybrid model of mostly remote with broadly-attended meetups is the best combination. But some companies will decide that everybody being in the office all the time is right for them, and they can perhaps leverage some benefits of doing so.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by logical_ferry on Saturday November 12, 2022 @04:19PM (#33577199)
> with broadly-attended meetups

How often do you feel is enough?

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by blowski on Sunday November 13, 2022 @02:22AM (#33580830)
It depends too much on the details to give a definitive answer.

Assuming the "typical" company made up mostly of people who've been there for more than a year, and where commuting is easy, maybe every 3 months is enough. New teams (even within such a company) should aim to meet weekly while they're in the forming stage. Small companies made up of very experienced ICs perhaps never need to meet at all.

I guess the best way of working it out is to ask people, and review what works.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by irrational on Saturday November 12, 2022 @01:51AM (#33570710)
I’d really like to know what the numbers are for the company I work for. Even if they rent a building in a business park (because there is not enough room on campus for a group), they will completely revamp the building from top to bottom and make it completely bespoke. The last time I worked in one of these buildings, they brought in artists who spent a week stenciling words and artwork over a concrete wall. How much did that cost?
Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by fbdab103 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @09:37AM (#33573446)
But, don't you feel engaged to come to a place with such inspirational artwork? Truly, a company that cares.

/s

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by llampx on Saturday November 12, 2022 @12:05PM (#33574898)
On the other hand, would you feel inspired and happy about going to a workplace with nothing on the walls or better still, the last company's name on them?

If the place feels dingy or like the owners don't care to make it look nice, I doubt it has a positive effect on productivity and employee retention.

Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by fbdab103 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @12:55PM (#33575353)
Yes? I am a fairly ascetic person (nothing on my walls at home), so that kind of stuff has never been particularly relevant to me. So long as the place is clean and has bright lights, I do not particularly care about the overall ambiance to the place. Far more relevant is my actual work configuration: privacy, noise, visual distractions, etc.
Re:Changing times (or, why is every layoff 10-15%?) by ecshafer on Saturday November 12, 2022 @02:24PM (#33576170)
>On the other hand, would you feel inspired and happy about going to a workplace with nothing on the walls or better still, the last company's name on them?

I wouldn't really care, I have never felt inspired by something on the walls. But I would legitimately laugh and feel better every day if the old companies name was still on the wall.