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Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by CharlesW on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:26PM (#33563709)
Rationale from thread:

> Helping the web to evolve is challenging, and it requires us to make difficult choices. We've also heard from our browser and device partners that every additional format adds costs (monetary or hardware), and we’re very much aware that these costs are borne by those outside of Google. When we evaluate new media formats, the first question we have to ask is whether the format works best for the web. With respect to new image formats such as JPEG XL, that means we have to look comprehensively at many factors: compression performance across a broad range of images; is the decoder fast, allowing for speedy rendering of smaller images; are there fast encoders, ideally with hardware support, that keep encoding costs reasonable for large users; can we optimize existing formats to meet any new use-cases, rather than adding support for an additional format; do other browsers and OSes support it?

> After weighing the data, we’ve decided to stop Chrome’s JPEG XL experiment and remove the code associated with the experiment. We'll work to publish data in the next couple of weeks.

> For those who want to use JPEG XL in Chrome, we believe a WebAssembly (Wasm) implementation is both performant and a great path forward.

> Jim

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by dcow on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:35PM (#33563855)
Which isn’t a real rationale. It says what some common problems are but not why specifically jpeg-xl is unfit. Are we really to believe that a new format is going to be perfect out of the gate? Surely there’s a path to introducing a new format that doesn’t screw over 3rd parties. I mean Google has been iron fisted with certain other formats… Something else happened here.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by NavinF on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:37PM (#33563891)
Other browsers can still add JPEG XL support and that would put pressure on Chrome to do the same. They just don't want to be the first mover.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by gjsman-1000 on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:40PM (#33563934)
Well... within the last ~1.5 years, AVIF has become natively supported on Windows 10 and Windows 11 (Windows 1903 with a free Store extension), macOS 13 (no AV1, but yes to AVIF), iOS 16 (no AV1, also yes to AVIF), and Android 12. And in browsers, AVIF won Firefox, Safari, and Chrome all together as a default supported option, JXL did not and was only an optional feature flag in Firefox.

Basically, AVIF won the OS-level support race by a landslide. JXL hasn't taken any victories in OS-level support yet. With the winner increasingly becoming obvious, time to cut the losses on JXL and run.

Part of this may be as well that AVIF is basically just an AV1 still. If you implement AV1, you've got 95% of your AVIF support already done.

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by jonsneyers on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:52PM (#33564121)
Note a small detail you left out: all this happened to AVIF _after_ it was enabled by default in Chrome...
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by erk__ on Friday November 11, 2022 @01:33PM (#33564759)
I don't think AVIF was ever behind a flag in Chrome, it was always enabled by default as long as it have been a part of it.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by jonsneyers on Friday November 11, 2022 @01:41PM (#33564872)
Correct. Same for WebP. Both were enabled before their specs were even finalized.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by boredtofears on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:38PM (#33563912)
That seems like a rather high bar to reach given that almost every other format got to do it the other way around (browser support before hardware level encoders etc).
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by 1MachineElf on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:30PM (#33563782)
It was an opt-in feature, so what data did they weigh?
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by excite1997 on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:31PM (#33563795)
I think that's a fair argument, except they almost certainly did not apply the same yardstick to WebP.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by birken on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:38PM (#33563904)
Well in fairness when WebP support was added in Chrome over 10 years ago it was a massive, massive improvement over the existing image formats that were being commonly used on the web.

JPEG XL's problem is that WebP has now existed for 10 years and has widespread support.

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by ZeroGravitas on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:41PM (#33563950)
Firefox didn't add Webp support for a long time, because it wasn't a massive, massive improvement over the existing image formats.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by alophawen on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:46PM (#33564029)
Neither of your links support your claim that Firefox avoided adding Webp support because it wasn't technically superiour.

Instead, what happened was that WebP started to be used on the web and this broke websites for Firefox users.

Since Firefox is by no means dominant on the web, we had to follow suit or lose more users.

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by ZeroGravitas on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:52PM (#33564122)
I'm not sure what you are saying.

Mozilla didn't support WebP for years. I'm fairly certain one of the official reasons they gave for not doing it was that it wasn't a massive jump in quality over JPEG, which obviously would have been good for the web if it was true and motivation for them to support it sooner than they did.

Notably, when they did add it, Edge did so around the same time, which seems to me suggests some politics in the background, (not in a conspiracy sense, just an agreement based on interperability) which I suspect might apply this time too.

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by edflsafoiewq on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:53PM (#33564131)
Webp's lossy mode may be uninspiring, but it also has a good lossless mode and supported both lossy and lossless transparency.
Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by ZeroGravitas on Friday November 11, 2022 @01:32PM (#33564743)
Worth noting that JPEG XL has a pretty good lossless mode too, however, I think in many cases you actually want to just use a lossy AVIF or JPEG XL in places you'd previously have used "lossless".

It was kind of an artificial split, much like text, alpha transparency or line drawing might be done as PNG, not because you wanted them to be "lossless" but because JPEG would mess them up due to a lack of tools for reproducing non-natural photo content.

See the lossless comparison here for more:

https://jakearchibald.com/2020/avif-has-landed/

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by JyrkiAlakuijala on Monday November 14, 2022 @09:56AM (#33594841)
don't look there -- that 'lossless' comparison is not actually lossless

here, a better comparison: https://siipo.la/blog/whats-the-best-lossless-image-format-c...

this one is also good: https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/comments/fjddcj/lossless_image_...

basically: JPEG XL does things right, WebP lossless is also not bad (14.8 % worse than JPEG XL), PNG is ok for its age (46.3 % worse), AVIF didn't focus on lossless (63.0 % worse)

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by excite1997 on Friday November 11, 2022 @02:28PM (#33565548)
I don't think that's the entire story. Google actively pushed WebP, for example recommending it to webmasters in their page speed evaluation tools (and site performance, as judged by Google, is a factor in your search ranking).

If they invested the same resources into improving and promoting JPEG XL, we'd be using JPEG XL. I'm not saying the outcome is objectively worse, but ultimately, they did pick the winner here.

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by sk65535 on Saturday November 12, 2022 @04:33AM (#33571565)
For a recap of WebP history: https://bit.ly/image_ready_webp_slides

If you look at slide #14, you'll see Opera was an early adopter. Firefox published a "No" blog-post in 2013, and Safari removed WebP support from Sierra preview in 2016, eventually adding it back in 2020. Stuff happened.

And yes, when WebP was created there was a real, non-incremental, need for a Web-oriented image format. Nowadays, it's just incremental improvement on this idea for browsers.

(disclaimer: WebP initiator here)

Re:Chrome Responds "No" to JPEG XL by lonjil on Friday November 11, 2022 @01:38PM (#33564820)
Hah, they definitely didn't apply this criteria when they enabled AVIF by default in Chrome before the AVIF spec was even complete.