News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by dannyw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:13PM (#33483383)
Firing based on LOC is stupid, but I don't understand this comment:

> Elon’s engineers were given instructions to follow: they did. It’s how Elon’s companies are operate apparently.

Maybe I've worked different comments to everyone else, but if I was told by my boss to do something like deactivate X, change something to Y, or in this case, fire X% of people, do people really expect employees to not follow it?

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by agilob on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:23PM (#33483491)
>Firing based on LOC is stupid

This is much more than stupid, people who do educational workshops, training, assist others with their problems, SREs and performance engineers, database maintainers, people who delete code by adding functionality are one of the biggest investment in corporations like Twitter. Firing based on LOC is probably why self-driving Tesla is coming next year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7oZ-AQszEI

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by inejge on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:39PM (#33483670)
if I was told by my boss to do something like deactivate X, change something to Y, or in this case, fire X% of people, do people really expect employees to not follow it?

The implication is that their instructions were much more detailed than "fire X% of people" and included using LoC as the metric, which nobody questioned.

(Any quantitative measurement of code quality will have too many outliers to be fair. LoC? Of course not. Number of closed PRs? You can't say much without knowing their complexity or severity. Etc. But they had to be quick, not fair.)

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by splitbrain on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:24PM (#33483496)
Well, if I'd tell my employees to do something stupid, I'd expect them to tell me why it's a stupid idea. But I also wouldn't fire them for talking back to me...
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by delecti on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:30PM (#33483567)
Definitely. And likewise, if my manager told me to do something I thought was stupid, I'd feel totally comfortable telling him (politely of course) why I thought it was a bad idea. Either I know something he doesn't, or he knows something I don't, but either way we want to not do dumb things.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by ljm on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:32PM (#33483594)
It reads like Elon believes his employees work for him personally, hence reports of people who work for Tesla suddenly being told to work on something related to Twitter.

That’s probably the bit people find unusual.

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by tablespoon on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:38PM (#33484832)
> It reads like Elon believes his employees work for him personally, hence reports of people who work for Tesla suddenly being told to work on something related to Twitter.

Honestly, shouldn't Musk have a lawsuit coming from Telsa shareholders, since he's doing stuff like that?

Tesla's employees must be used to make Tesla successful, not to help the CEO on on some personal investment/project of his.

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by bitshiftfaced on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:32PM (#33483586)
Not disagreeing, but I'm assuming they did it this way because they wanted some quick and objective way to make the cuts. Given those priorities, what's the best way to accomplish that?
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by TheLoafOfBread on Saturday November 05, 2022 @02:40PM (#33484331)
This is not an objective way. You will fire most valuable people (those who knows how stuff works) and you will keep junior grunts who type code by what seniors tells them.

Correct approach would be understand why there are so many people, figure out what is their job and then start removing those who are deemed unnecessary.

i.e. Imagine that you would come to new codebase and start throwing out code which does not appears to do anything and then be surprised that it is not possible to compile or you can't deploy or whole application will start crashing at random intervals.

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by zastrowm on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:02PM (#33484547)
It may not be the correct way or a smart way, but it is objective - the metric being used cannot be interpreted one way or another, it's just LOC.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by kaba0 on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:01PM (#33484539)
Well, it is likely stupid to make the cuts? Engineering talent is hard to find and would have been much easier to retain.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by plorkyeran on Saturday November 05, 2022 @06:14PM (#33486464)
Picking people entirely at random would be better than picking them based on a nonsensical metric.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by cratermoon on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:22PM (#33483472)
What if the employee knows the action, or results, violate the law? What if the employee is part of an important community or organization in the field that has ethical standards that would be violated and result in the employee's ejection from that community?

There are many reasons why in many engineering fields there's a licensing process and exam, but one of the most important ones, from the employee's perspective, is being able to say "No, I can't do that, I would lose my license".

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by majewsky on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:44PM (#33487154)
Hence also why it's frankly ridiculous when developers refer to themselves as "engineers".
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by cratermoon on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:51PM (#33488013)
I never refer to myself as an engineer, it's mostly a job title that's been bestowed on me by industry trends. (Remember when "web developer" was a job title?)

I have tried to learn from my for-real licensed engineer friends what the profession means and emulate them. Without the safety net of a license or a code of ethics, it's mostly a self-indulgent exercise in what might be.

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by samstave on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:30PM (#33483569)
Fear based mgmt
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by Kye on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:32PM (#33483585)
The idea behind hiring someone to do something is they're supposed to know how to do the thing. Dictating stuff like this is micromanaging, but he should at least have the good sense to listen if they come back with a reason it's not going to work. These aren't school children talking back because theydonwanna. These are professionals who likely know better.
Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by watwut on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:58PM (#33483892)
With my team leader, or architect and also higher mangar like CEO I am free to say "I don't think we should do it this way, issue is ...". Or just "sorry not task for me".

They may disagree and push back, but I am sure I won't be punished. Side effect is that they are used to argue for what they won't and completely ridiculous decisions (like judging by loc) are avoided.

Re:Tesla devs at Twitter misunderstand Slack privacy; leak f... by cratermoon on Monday November 07, 2022 @10:04PM (#33515445)