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Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by boomboomsubban on Saturday November 05, 2022 @12:38AM (#33478027)
The worst thing he did was worship a different god? Never would have guessed there'd be a pro-Jupiter bias in 2022 literary review.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by Apocryphon on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:19AM (#33478216)
Same crime that Akhenaten did as pharaoh.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by WangComputers on Saturday November 05, 2022 @02:28AM (#33478541)
Elagabalus was of Arab heritage and he was a priest who worshiped a representation of Baal, the very controversial and very foreign God he wanted to make #1.

It's no surprise that people were upset.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by pencilguin on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:38AM (#33478908)
... and ancient trolling followed naturally.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by boomboomsubban on Saturday November 05, 2022 @06:02AM (#33479835)
Yeah, 2000 years ago. I don't expect a modern publication to call it the worst thing he did
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by ogogmad on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:13AM (#33481655)
It may have been the "worst thing" he did politically. Do you not understand that?
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by boomboomsubban on Saturday November 05, 2022 @02:10PM (#33484027)
The article is a book review, that is not the context I see when I read that condemnation. Maybe the book makes that case, but the review does not.

And, referencing your other post, I don't think the scenario in seventeenth century England is comparable to third century Rome. The Roman pantheon was already on the downswing, allowing a priest of Elagabalus to become emperor. A century later Constantine would make a similar move, leading to the still dominant Christianity. Had Heliogabalus been a competent man the move may have been a huge success.

Finally, the personal attacks aren't necessary.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by ogogmad on Saturday November 05, 2022 @02:28PM (#33484220)
Yeah, sorry about the attack.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by joemazerino on Saturday November 05, 2022 @02:56AM (#33478698)
.. Did you miss the part about mixing amber with beans at his dinner parties??
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by pencilguin on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:01AM (#33478724)
Easy to make up, impossible to corroborate.

It tells us that Romans disapproved of messing with food almost as much as with religion.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by riffraff on Saturday November 05, 2022 @04:49AM (#33479341)
I think mixing jewels with food or medicine was not uncommon in the antiquity, or at least I've heard of it often.

Even today it's not that odd to have gold foil in food.

Also a documented kind of bread in Rome was made with clay.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by boomboomsubban on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:44AM (#33481410)
No, the article specified his religious beliefs were worse than that. I find drowning people with flower petals to be the most objectionable act listed.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by ogogmad on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:14AM (#33481660)
It's not about our opinion of him, which is irrelevant, because he's dead. It's about how he failed politically. Committing a religious sacrilege so offensive to people that they killed him for it is politically incompetent. Our moral judgement of that fact -- as readers of HN in the year 2022 -- is irrelevant to his political fortunes in the year 222.

Let's say that you're an English king in the year 1680. You're openly Catholic; and for that, you get deposed. From our moral opinion in the year 2022, that king did nothing wrong. From a political point of view though, he was terrible. And his terribleness was caused by him being an openly Catholic king in England in the year 1680. It was the worst thing he did politically because it ended his political career.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by taneq on Saturday November 05, 2022 @11:46PM (#33488712)
I didn't read that as literally asphyxiating them, just dumping a bunch of petals on them. I can imagine it might not be as funny to the guests as it was to him, though.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by boomboomsubban on Sunday November 06, 2022 @08:43AM (#33492545)
The original source for the story mentions some people were smothered to death.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by pencilguin on Saturday November 05, 2022 @03:01AM (#33478723)
So, not very different from subsequent Christian emperors, except they kept better control of their posterity.

The debauches sound wholly fabricated. I don't know why historians imagine they can pick out anything true. Even if an appointed official's name is corroborated somehow, there seems no reason to believe whatever was written about him or about why he was appointed.

We can be fairly sure Elagabalus was not well-liked by the literate class, and we can see what sort of activities they thought people would or ought not approve of.

We see similar behavior by historians on whether Jesus ever existed as a physical person. Almost all received documentary evidence is either obvious fabrication from often centuries later, or (e.g. in Pliny) acknowledged hearsay. The overwhelming majority of material represented as "early church", on any aspect, is clumsily forged.

The star exhibit supporting existence is a single paragraph in Josephus that every historian agrees was at least clumsily doctored by apologists. Many earnestly believe they can pick out bits of it not doctored, but the whole passage it appears in reads better with it omitted entirely. The most favorable judgment of it that can be supported is that nobody can prove none of it was in the original manuscript, and the "reconstructed" version reads a lot like Josephus.

There is no information to suggest why it would have been thought necessary to corrupt the original text, if it existed and read as "reconstructed". Statistically, the fraction of historians doubting existence is monotonically increasing, with no change in the evidence. That is actually progress.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by ogogmad on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:03AM (#33481572)
> The debauches sound wholly fabricated

Seems plausible to me. If you allow a horny 14 year old boy to get anything he wants, this is what happens. Any system that enables this to happen though is stupid.

Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by pencilguin on Saturday November 05, 2022 @05:27PM (#33485995)
A horny teenager is easily satisfied without public spectacle. A resentful chattering class, less so.
Re:Review of the Mad Emperor: Heliogabalus and the Decadence... by ogogmad on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:08AM (#33481605)
It's not inconceivable that people back then were sincere about their religious beliefs. Imagine going to St Peter's Basilica and replacing a crucifix with a statue of Baal. Or placing a statue of Krishna on top of the Kaaba. These could start a war.