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Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by slaw on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:15PM (#33440458)
SpaceX succeeds despite any Musk's involvement.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by terafo on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:22PM (#33440562)
SpaceX is something that Musk created and controlled fully for the entirety the full period of existence of SpaceX. I think it is delusional to think it is successful despite Musk, especially with how many better funded space players such as ULA, Blue Origin and various government initiatives are falling behind.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by slaw on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:33PM (#33440773)
I would like to read opinion from someone working at SpaceX. I don't trust what Elon Musk brags at all.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by damagednoob on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:44PM (#33440933)
At the very least you have to say he has a knack for hiring the right people.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by chasd00 on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:19PM (#33441498)
> has a knack for hiring the right people

buildings teams is part of my day job, Musk's ability to get the right people in the right spot at the right time and motivated is his biggest gift IMO. If you're good at that then there's really nothing you can't actually do.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by joshxyz on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:17PM (#33441459)
this. guy got flaws for sure but he's good at finding and funding talent.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by dotnet00 on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:47PM (#33440978)
Fortunately there are entire books written on SpaceX's founding years from interviewing employees which support the point that Musk played a pretty big role in SpaceX getting to where it is now.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by panick21_ on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @05:59PM (#33443486)
Sure I have, you disagree with pretty much all of the leader of SpaceX who have said the opposite. Have you not bothered to look? You disagree with the journalist who has spent most time investigating space. You disagree with most experts who have studied the topic.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by badwolf on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:29PM (#33440686)
I'd say a big part of SpaceX successes can be attributed to Gwynn Shotwell
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by bpodgursky on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @02:50PM (#33441039)
She's definitely critical for the the commercial success, and probably federal contracts.

Elon contributed the "what if we landed the rocket?" moonshot ambition. Definitely need both.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by LargeWu on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:07PM (#33441314)
Ambition, backed by a lot of money. He's certainly not the first person to say "What if we could reuse the rocket?".

Musk's contributions can pretty much be summed up by "already had a lot of money" and "hired smart people". Contrast w/ the founding of Microsoft or Apple, in which the founders were the actual people creating their first products from scratch.

Musk is certainly a big-idea person, but I think he is a prime example of somebody who was in the right place to get lucky at the top of the dotcom boom, which in turn rested on him being from an already wealthy family. His foray into Twitter, "how to solve the Ukraine-Russia war", and the Thai cave rescue suggest he's not quite the genius his fans make him out to be.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by dhedberg on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:35PM (#33441732)
> Musk's contributions can pretty much be summed up by "already had a lot of money" and "hired smart people".

He almost went bankrupt getting their first small rocket to space. He wasn't exactly poor at the time thanks to paypal, but he didn't have anything close to unlimited funds. He is a billionaire now because he succeeded, not the other way around.

> [..] which the founders were the actual people creating their first products from scratch.

If your claim is that Elon was not involved in creating the products, this is misinformed. https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden... is the link I have handy.

> which in turn rested on him being from an already wealthy family.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1005593651219582977, "I arrived in North America at 17 w $2000, a backpack & a suitcase full of books. Paid my own way thru college. Dropped out of Stanford Eng/Phys grad school w $110k in college debt."

> Thai cave rescue

The "pedo"-thing was stupid and deserve criticism, but he was actually asked to continue working on the submarine: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by WalterBright on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:35PM (#33442589)
> He's certainly not the first person to say "What if we could reuse the rocket?"

Of course. But he was the first person to make it work, which was very non-trivial. NASA failed at it for 60 years.

From sratch? I don't think so. DOS was bought from Tim Patterson. Microsoft BASIC ran on a computer created by others. Microsoft didn't invent BASIC. Neither did Apple. Apple didn't invent the 6502. The Apple 1 was built from off-the-shelf parts available to anyone.

Being a genius does not require being a success at everything. In fact, most successful people fail quite a lot. The difference between successful people and unsuccessful ones is the successful ones:

1. are not dissuaded by failure

2. learn from their mistakes and failures

3. try again and again

The unsuccessful ones "learn" from their failure by not trying again. Or they quit before they start.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by WalterBright on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:02PM (#33441243)
Elon contributed the company and contributed getting the talent hired and pointed in the right direction.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by WalterBright on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:02PM (#33441229)
Musk recognized her talent and put her in the right position at SpaceX. That's what leaders do.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by r00bot on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @08:01PM (#33444705)
Hiring someone great does not make you greater than them, though.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by panick21_ on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @06:02PM (#33443536)
People love to give her all the credit, just to discredit Musk. She was doing sales for the first 8 years of the company. Surely an important job, and she is of course great, but to claim she is some overwhelming part of the success of SpaceX compared to Musk is to much.

Of course all the early people, Shotwell, Mueller, Königsmann, Bazza were all really important. Shotwell by now being the the most important.

But there really is no question that Musk deserves by far the most credit.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by Symmetry on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:18PM (#33441483)
Here's Tom Mueller, the main rocket expert at early SpaceX, describing his experience working with Elon:

>And, uh, I’ve seen that hurt us before, I’ve seen that fail, but I’ve also seen— where nobody thought it would work— it was the right decision. It was the harder way to do it, but in the end, it was the right thing. One of the things that we did with the Merlin 1D was; he kept complaining— I talked earlier about how expensive the engine was. [inaudible] [I said,] “[the] only way is to get rid of all these valves. Because that’s what’s really driving the complexity and cost.” And how can you do that? And I said, “Well, on smaller engines, we’d go face-shutoff, but nobody’s done it on a really large engine. It’ll be really difficult.” And he said, “We need to do face-shutoff. Explain how that works?” So I drew it up, did some, you know, sketches, and said “here’s what we’d do,” and he said “That’s what we need to do.” And I advised him against it; I said it’s going to be too hard to do, and it’s not going to save that much. But he made the decision that we were going to do face-shutoff.

>So we went and developed that engine; and it was hard. We blew up a lot of hardware. And we tried probably tried a hundred different combinations to make it work; but we made it work. I still have the original sketch I did; I think it was— what was it, Christmas 2011, when I did that sketch? And it’s changed quite a bit from that original sketch, but it was pretty scary for me, knowing how that hardware worked, but by going face-shutoff, we got rid of the main valves, we got rid of the sequencing computer; basically, you spin the pumps and pressure comes up, the pressure opens the main injector, lets the oxygen go first, and then the fuel comes in. So all you gotta time is the ignitor fluid. So if you have the ignitor fluid going, it’ll light, and it’s not going to hard start. That got rid of the problem we had where you have two valves; the oxygen valve and the fuel valve. The oxygen valve is very cold and very stiff; it doesn’t want to move. And it’s the one you want open first. If you relieve the fuel, it’s what’s called a hard start. In fact, we have an old saying that says, “[inaudible][When you start a rocket engine, a thousand things could happen, and only one of those is good]“, and by having sequencing correctly, you can get rid of about 900 of those bad things, we made these engine very reliable, got rid of a lot of mass, and got rid of a lot of costs. And it was the right thing to do.

>And now we have the lowest-cost, most reliable engines in the world. And it was basically because of that decision, to go to do that. So that’s one of the examples of Elon just really pushing— he always says we need to push to the limits of physics. Like, an example I’ll give is, on the car factory; you know, a car moves through a typical factory, like a Toyota or a Chevy factory; a car is moving at you know, inches per second. It’s like, much less than walking speed. And his thoughts are that the machinery, the robots that are building the car should move as fast as they can. They should be moving so fast you can’t see them. That’s why you can’t have people in there, because they’d get crushed; people move too slow. That’s the way he thinks. “So, what are the physical limits of how fast you can make a car?” He looks at videos of like, coke cans being made, and things like that, where you can’t even see them; it’s just a blur. And, you know, the puck of aluminum, cut it up, deep-draw, fill it with coke, you put the lid on, you put the lid on it; it’s just like going down the assembly line so fast you can’t even see it. And Elon wants to do that with cars.

People often claim SpaceX was just Musk's show rather than a team effort where Mueller and Shotwell at least were just as important and probably more people besides. And he's had his share of bad ideas. But at the same time the sort of restless perfectionism he tries to get people to have in their engineering is a net force for good, similar to what Steve Jobs did with design at Apple.

Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by gausswho on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @03:26PM (#33441584)
Interesting quote. My takeaway is that Elon is a world class rubber duck.
Re:SpaceX is now building a Raptor engine a day, NASA says by bryanlarsen on Wednesday November 02, 2022 @04:47PM (#33442698)
More than that. One key line: "We blew up a lot of hardware."

Any other exec would have pulled the plug. For example, in 2017 Blue Origin blew up an engine and test stand. Bezos freaked out, fired the CEO and brought in an oldspace stooge who has basically killed the company.

It's when things get tough that you find out what leaders are made of. SpaceX and Tesla have gone through some really tough times.