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Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by wyclif on Sunday December 11, 2011 @02:43AM (#3339562)
I'm a denizen of the East Coast. On every visit to SF I notice shit on the sidewalks that public services never clean up. I guess it's the vast number of homeless people and crackheads. They just pull their pants down and defecate wherever they are. I never saw that in Philly.

But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time. Everbody had the same idea and solution.

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by potatolicious on Sunday December 11, 2011 @03:48AM (#3339654)
Talking to other people in SF about the city always strikes me as somewhat Stockholm Syndrome-y. People take pride in paying $2K for an apartment on a street where the police warns you to stay inside because two people got raped blocks apart in the same week. It's so surreal.

Oh, the crime isn't so bad. Everyone knows to stay away from the west side of Dolores Park! The crackheads in the TL won't bother you unless you show fear! Haha! Another person got shanked on my block this week - if only they were as street smart as the rest of us! I deftly dodged a piece of human shit on the sidewalk on my way to work without missing a beat, how delightfully urban-sophisticate!

I've never before lived in a place where violent crime, rampant substance abuse, and extreme poverty was treated in such a blase way, and often glorified as "vibrancy" and "color". The more I live here the more I feel like people here have these giant goggles on that only allows them to see the charming mini-muffins, startup parties, and great coffee.

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by balloot on Sunday December 11, 2011 @01:31PM (#3340628)
I have lived in SF for 5 years, and seriously have no clue WTF you are talking about. The crime rate in SF is quite average as far as big cities go. You make it sound like some post apocalyptic hellhole.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by tptacek on Sunday December 11, 2011 @08:04PM (#3341742)
San Francisco has a higher incidence of violent crime per capita than does New York, despite the fact that San Francisco is concentrated into 46 square miles, while New York spans 301 square miles.

What this means in practice is that nobody in San Francisco lives more than walking distance from an area of the city in which people are routinely mugged, whereas you have to get north of the 140s in NYC to see drastically increased crime.

San Francisco is, for its population, anomalously small. That plays into a lot of the problems perceive in it: it drives housing costs, makes transportation infrastructure harder to build, retards home ownership (and thus neighborhoods --- had a block party lately?), puts people into closer contact with crime, &c &c.

I lived in SF for several years, and I think 'potatolicious is if anything understating his case.

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by tedunangst on Sunday December 11, 2011 @09:26PM (#3341968)
Shouldn't the small size make transportation easier to build? I've always assumed muni sucks so bad because it's part of some grand plan I never understood. Incompetence cannot explain it, it's so bad it has to be deliberate.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by goodweeds on Thursday December 15, 2011 @04:12PM (#3358017)
Can you explain to me why Muni and BART suck? I take BART or AC Transit every day, and Muni 2 or 3 times per week, and have for years. A decade ago I was afraid of Muni because I was afraid of poor people. I'm no longer afraid of poor people, I'm afraid of the rich, so Muni feels really natural.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by DrJokepu on Monday December 12, 2011 @05:16AM (#3343051)
I'm truly curious, as someone who has never been to San Francisco, if rents are so high, how come smalltime criminals and other lower parts of the society can afford it? Or they simply don't have to pay rent?
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by goodweeds on Thursday December 15, 2011 @04:11PM (#3358006)
The very very poor live in taxpayer subsidized housing called SROs, or camp-out in parks or on the street. Blue-collar families who were lucky enough to buy in the '60s and '70s often have multiple generations in their spots, or sell, profit many hundreds of thousands of dollars, and relocate to cheap suburbs. Otherwise they reside in subsidized housing projects or just live in the 5 or 6 bad neighborhoods where crime is high and rents are cheap such as the 'loin, bayshore, hunter's point, the south side of potrero hill, tortilla flats, the far outer-mission, or ingleside. Most of these neighborhoods are being aggressively squeezed out of existence through gentrifaction.

Most residents without families have roommates. Tweens who make up the majority of the workforce naive enough to work for start-ups live 3-5 people in older victorian or "railroad" apartments where the dining rooms and living rooms have long-since been converted into bedrooms.

These apartments are rent controlled, so it's common for these units to be priced below market if the lease holder has had their lease for a significant period of time.

I have several friends who spend $600-$900/month to share such a unit with 3-4 others, whilst the leaseholder pays $1,000-$1,500/month for the apartment. Often the leaseholder no longer resides in the unit, and sublets it as an income source.

Our rent control law was ill-conceived covering only buildings constructed before the bill was passed in the'70s. Landlords burdened by rent-control statues are only permitted inflationary rent increases. Landlords of newer constructions may set rates as they see fit when contracts come up to renewal. This artificially restricts the supply of available units and helps keep rents high.

My last apartment, a 2 bedroom, 2 bath in SOMA cost me $2900 when I signed up for it two years ago. They raised the rent to $4,200 this summer and I had to move to Oakland. It turns out Oakland is pretty awesome, but it's not home. Everything closes early, there are some 'hoods I bike through which are shady enough that I keep pepper spray mounted on my seat stay and a quick-action folding knife in my pocket.

There is very little violence in San Francisco directed at white/asian, upper-middle class people, like the suburbanites bitching in this thread. Most violence is crackheads killing crackheads, or gangs killing other gang members. I've walked every street in this city day and night, drunk, high, and sober, carrying a $2k laptop and a $3k camera on my backpack.

Panhandlers mostly stick to the neighborhoods locals avoid. The yuppie neighborhoods and the tourist neighborhoods. But honestly, if the fear of panhandlers keeps you from moving to the city and sticking in the south bay or the peninsula, awesome. You're not going to contribute anything to this city besides the money you spend at restaurants and bars, anyways, so you're just part of the invading gentry, you're not part of our city. Stay away. It's dangerous here. The poor are out to get you because they're poor and you're rich. Go back to Palo Alto where you belong. Please. They have coffee shops and women too beautiful for you nerds to ever sleep with.

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by jessedhillon on Sunday December 11, 2011 @06:15AM (#3339854)
You aren't contributing anything more to the conversation. There are some high-paying jobs in Austin that you might want to check out.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by oldstrangers on Sunday December 11, 2011 @07:25AM (#3339930)
I thought his post was rather insightful for those of us in Austin constantly wondering if the grass is greener on the other side.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by potatolicious on Sunday December 11, 2011 @03:26PM (#3340964)
To be fair, it's not all bad - otherwise I would've high-tailed it out of here already. I feel that SF is a city of extremes - on the bad side, it gets really fucked up. But on the good side, there are things here that you won't find anywhere else.

As impendia brings up elsewhere in the thread, there are a lot of world-class people here, in startups and otherwise. I'm a part-time photographer on the side, and I've been able to find a lot more creative, ambitious, and talented people here than anywhere else I've been.

Though I wish I could get to these places/people without wading through the cesspool that is the rest of the city. SF is a city where you can attend an art show opening by incredible artists... but have to walk through crackstab-row to get there. You can learn dance from world-class instructors... but have to step over a few prone, immobile bodies lying on the sidewalk. There are unique shops you won't find anywhere else... and you'll be accosted by deranged crackheads the whole way. You can enjoy great, sunny year-round weather in the park... just watch out for the needles in the grass.

It really is a city of extremes. Personally, I'm not moving out of here anytime soon - though I would wish that people stop wearing obvious problems like a badge of pride. No, it's not cool that you live on a street where people get raped all the time. No, it's not cool that you have 5 crackheads hanging out downstairs blocking your building's entrance every morning. In other cities people would see these things as problems. In SF it's "ohhhhh it's just SF! Reminds me of how lucky I am to be here!".

The standard response to bringing any of these impolite topics up is either:

- hur hur. You're obviously not cut out for city-living (right, because I've lived in more major cities than most people have in their lives...)

- Well, I've never seen any of this! (unless you stay in the very furthest reaches of the Richmond or Outer Sunset, yes, yes you have).

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by goodweeds on Thursday December 15, 2011 @04:19PM (#3358052)
If you've ever lived in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, or any of the small midwestern cities you'll feel that San Francisco is a paradise. I've had a gun pointed in my face in Philly and New York. The worst random violence I've ever had is I caught some guy with a grinder trying to cut through my bicycle lock. He high-tailed it, and I stole his grinder.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by tedunangst on Sunday December 11, 2011 @09:34PM (#3341984)
I've decided that while urban areas generally lean left, there are definitely "red" cities and "blue" cities, with the classification basically coming down to the citizenry's thoughts on what constitutes police brutality/harassment/whatever.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by karmajunkie on Sunday December 11, 2011 @08:50AM (#3340054)
As someone who's prospectively moving out to the Valley from Austin in a couple of months, I'd say its perhaps the most interesting part of this thread...
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by matwood on Sunday December 11, 2011 @08:37AM (#3340022)
But yeah, the weather sure is nice. I figure that's part of the problem, though: if you're homeless, you'll head somewhere that's warm all the time.

That and a place with good public transportation. Portland has a huge homeless problem because it has free public transportation within city limits. Many homeless people just ride the trains around all day.

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by balloot on Sunday December 11, 2011 @01:14PM (#3340574)
Anyone who raves about the great weather in SF is clearly not qualified to give judgment on the city.
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by potatolicious on Sunday December 11, 2011 @03:42PM (#3341009)
Anyone who thinks that SF doesn't have great weather, compared to the rest of the country, has clearly been in California so long they've lost touch with reality.

Do you really want to compare SF weather with Seattle, Portland, Chicago, New York, Boston, etc?

Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by tedunangst on Sunday December 11, 2011 @09:17PM (#3341948)
I like wearing shorts. At night. The fact that I can do this, at least some parts of the year, in New York, makes it a great city. In New York, I never once left the house wearing a tshirt, walked a neighborhood over, spent a few hours at a friend's, and then nearly died of hypothermia walking home. The fact that residents of SF have to check the weather every two hours and every time they cross into a new zip code is, imo, a fatal flaw. Yeah, it's often nice, but never nice enough for long enough (48 hours of reliable 70+ temperatures). Now, a few miles down the peninsula, things get more interesting...
Re:$150K and up for Software Devs in Austin by fooooobar on Sunday December 11, 2011 @09:37AM (#3340123)
> I never saw that in Philly.

I definitely have. :|