What do you mean he never said it? Here he is saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gZUQMqDAI

Yes. I've seen that before. Here's the transcript of what he said:

мы сделаем все чтобы обеспечить безопасные условия для проведения референдумов для того чтобы люди могли выразить свою волю это решение о своем будущем которое примет большинство жителей Донецкой и Луганской народных республик Запорожской и Херсонской областей мы поддержим в своей агрессивной антироссийской политики Запад перешел всякую грань мы постоянно слышим угрозы в адрес нашей страны нашего народа некоторые безответственные политики на западе не только говорят о планах по организации поставок Украине дальнобойных наступательных вооружений систем которые позволят наносить удары по Крыму другим регионам России такие террористические удары в том числе с использованием западного оружия уже наносится по приграничным населенным пунктам Белгородской Курской областей вход пошел и ядерный Шантаж речь идет Не только о поощряемых западом обстрелах Запорожской атомной электростанции Что грозит атомная катастрофы высказывание некоторых высокопоставленных представителей ведущих государств НАТО возможностей и допустимости применения против России оружия массового поражения ядерного оружия тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения А по отдельным компонентам и более современными чем у стран НАТО и при угрозе территориальной целостности нашей страны для защиты России и нашего народа мы безусловно используем все имеющиеся в нашем распоряжении средства это не Блеф А те кто пытаются шантажировать нас ядерным должны знать что Роза ветров может развернуться и

And a Google-translation:

we will do everything to ensure safe conditions for holding referendums so that people can express their will this decision about their future, which will be made by the majority of residents of the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics of Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, we will support in its aggressive anti-Russian policy, the West has crossed every line, we constantly hear threats against our country, our people, some irresponsible politicians in the West not only talk about plans to organize the supply of long-range offensive weapons to Ukraine that will allow strikes on Crimea to other regions of Russia, such terrorist strikes, including with the use of Western weapons, are already inflicted on border settlements Belgorod Kursk region has entered and nuclear Blackmail is not only about the shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant encouraged by the West What threatens a nuclear catastrophe is the statement of some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO states of the possibilities and admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction A for individual components and more modern than those of NATO countries and with a threat to the territorial integrity of our country to protect Russia and our people, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff, and those who are trying to blackmail us with a nuclear weapon should know that the prevailing winds can blow in their direction.

Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"? Because the only time he mmentions nuclear weapons by name, he's referring to threars from NATO to use them on Russia and saying he'll respond in kind if this happens. Exactly the same response any other country would make; "If you nuke us, we'll nuke you back". Do you think the US or any other NATO country would say any different?

How on earth does this get mutated into 'Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons'? It's the same kind of doublethink which mutates 'We're not going to buy your gas any more' into 'Russia turned off the taps'.

You don't have to be an apologist for what Russia has done to Ukraine [and I'm not!] to be alarmed at how public opinion is being manipulated here. It's just depressing that it's even working on the HN audience which I always assumed to be a bit less gullible and a bit more questioning. God only knows what crap people who get their news from the tabloid press are being spoon-fed here!

Right here, in your own translation: "...I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction A for individual components and more modern than those of NATO countries and with a threat to the territorial integrity of our country to protect Russia and our people, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff..."

Hard to read that as anything other than a threat to use nukes. What else could he be talking about there?

You're missing my point. Various news sources are reporting that Putin "threatened to use nuclear weapons" with the patently obvious suggestion that he was threatening a first strike and explicitly said that he would use nuclear weapons in that. Now I'm not disputing the inference that can be drawn from what he said. That's obvious. What I'm trying to point out is that this 'inference' we're all drawing is now being reported repeatedly as an actual statement he made. Which is completely untrue.

It's like if I said "adam has threatened to kick me in the bollocks. Well, if he does so, he should remember I have steel toe-capped boots too!" and the press all reported that as "Normille threatens to kick adam in the bollocks".

It ignores both the fact that I actually said I'd only retaliate if you kicked me in the bollocks first AND the fact that I didn't actually say I would kick you in the bollocks, but just reminded you that you weren't the only one wearing big boots.

It may sound pedantic. But reporting what you inferred from what someone said as a direct quote attributed to that person is not honest journalism.

You are in the wrong here. Putin did threaten to use nuclear weapon when he said “we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff”. There is no misleading there. He tried to justify it by saying that’d be in response to some threat to Russia. We all know Nazi has been the justification for his invasion of Ukraine, no matter how ridiculous it is. Do you think he wouldn’t fabricate another threat to justify his use of nuclear weapon?

As for reporting it as threaten to use nuclear weapon as “first strike”, I haven’t seen any news that specifically mentioned “first strike”. Care to give an example?

  >Putin did threaten to use nuclear weapon when he said “we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff”. 

  >I haven’t seen any news that specifically mentioned “first strike”. Care to give an example?

You're literally proving my point there.

In the first quote above you're telling me Putin did threaten to use nuclear weapons, even though he didn't say those actual words

In the second quote you're asking me to prove my 'inference' by showing you where those actual words were used.

So you want it both ways? We can infer what Putin meant and report that as direct quote. But when reporting statements from 'our side' we must stick to the actual words used?

If you can't see the inconsistency there, there's no point even debating this further.

> Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"?

Here -

тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения

admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction

This is direct threat, very serious from the person in Putin's position.

Again, you're making the same [deliberate?] error everyone else is making. He's threatening he'll RETALIATE accordingly if the West/NATO uses nuclear weapons against Russia. This is EXACTLY the same stated "No first Strike" policy as every single NATO member has.

So why are we not seeing reports that "USA threatens to use nuclear weapons against China"? Because I bet if you, if asked, the US would make EXACTLY the same 'threats'.

No, you just don't understand him. Putin and his guys threaten whatever, and will do whatever they think they can get away with.

Again, you're in dangerous delusion that Putin doesn't evaluate first strikes.

I don't think China is relevant here.

Again you're [deliberately?] misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing about whether or not Putin will use nuclear weapons, or whether or not he would launch a first strike. My argument is entirely about the fact that the media is reporting that he "threatened to use nuclear weapons" as a direct quote, when he didn't utter those actual words.

Whether he will or not, isn't the issue here.

I said elsewhere in this thread how surprised I was that even HN's supposedly above average intelligence readership was failing to spot these manipulations. Your reply kind of proves the point.

Somehow my pointing out that "The media has quoted Putin as saying X when he didn't actually say those words" has mutated into "Normille doesn't believe Putin will do X"

It's this distinction really so difficult for people to grasp?

> My argument is entirely about the fact that the media is reporting that he "threatened to use nuclear weapons" as a direct quote, when he didn't utter those actual words.

Can you please stop being obtuse? You don't get direct incriminating words - you have to understand the meaning, and the intent of the words, and judge by them.

I'm surprised you're failing to see this.

Because context matters. Russia sees the annexed parts as part of Russia:

> that will allow strikes on Crimea to other regions of Russia

They are also saying:

> and nuclear Blackmail is not only about the shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant encouraged by the West What threatens a nuclear catastrophe

They blame NATO and Ukraine for actions, which are Russia's doing. This is Russia's playbook. Accuse the other party of what you are doing, so that your actions are legitimate, it's Russia's version of "why are you hitting yourself". This whole statement boils down to "We could use nuclear weapons if we don't stop doing what we blame the other side for". Which is the same as threatening nuclear weapons outright.

The theme of the day is, that Ukraine is preparing a dirty bomb. Which should give everyone pause, as to how far Russia might actually go.