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Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by superkuh on Sunday October 23, 2022 @02:42PM (#33309130)
Yes. New school's defining feature is needless layering of complexity to hide the simple truth of the file system from users.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by neilalexander on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:24PM (#33309948)
Is there a reason why someone visiting your website should know or care about file extensions?
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by lenkite on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:31PM (#33309997)
I guess no one should know whether a pdf is a pdf. Or even whether it's a .com or a .org domain - the browser should just strip all that confusing stuff away!
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by texaslonghorn5 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:49PM (#33310137)
When you're serving someone an HTML file are you serving them the exact copy on your file system or do you ever use templates? Do you ever pull info from the database? If so, can you see why this is slightly different from directly serving a static pdf?

Also note that you'll often see a PDF generated on the fly with a long, difficult to parse URL.

Take up your second point with the W3 or whatever, to be honest if tlds weren't so important for phishing and whatnot it would probably be fine. I think some browsers have started doing that anyway. You overestimate how tech savvy the average user is, and by extension you overestimate how much the average user can keep track of all this complexity. Do you think most people have heard of .info or .xyz?

Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by paraknight on Monday October 24, 2022 @02:06AM (#33313403)
That's what mime-type headers are for. The URL should locate a resource, as the name suggests, not necessarily convey metadata about what the resource is.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by lmm on Sunday October 23, 2022 @05:42PM (#33310558)
The user presumably wants to know what kind of content they're going to receive from a given endpoint - foo.html, foo.pdf, foo.jpg, foo.mp3 and foo.avi suggest quite different experiences, and it's nice to include that hint in the URL (where it's visible on mouseover) rather than the user having to go in blind. I also like being able to reassure the user that they're receiving the same piece of content however they access a given resource, rather than the possibility of invisible content negotiation changing the site's behaviour.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by neilalexander on Sunday October 23, 2022 @05:58PM (#33310685)
Such hints can be unreliable at best and misleading at worst. There is nothing to guarantee that the file extension and the Content-Type header will agree, nor is there anything to guarantee that the file name in the URL will match the download file name in the Content-Disposition header.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by lmm on Sunday October 23, 2022 @06:03PM (#33310729)
Well, sure, but you can just... not do that? The <title> tag can be misleading because there's no guarantee that the title matches the content of the page - but the answer to that is to use good titles for your pages, not to avoid using the <title> tag.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by neilalexander on Sunday October 23, 2022 @06:13PM (#33310797)
My point is that it isn’t really reassuring for the user because of invisible negotiations. If anything, I would lean more towards guessing that users are, more often than not, either ignorant or untrusting of URL contents, either because the URLs so frequently look like nonsense (arbitrary content IDs instead of meaningful names) or because they have already proven to be unreliable elsewhere on the web (deep links not as deep as expected when copied or shared).
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by lmm on Sunday October 23, 2022 @06:16PM (#33310816)
> If anything, I would lean more towards guessing that users are, more often than not, either ignorant or untrusting of URL contents, either because the URLs so frequently look like nonsense (arbitrary content IDs instead of meaningful names) or because they have already proven to be unreliable elsewhere on the web (deep links not as deep as expected when copied or shared).

I think users are (rightfully) distrustful of URLs in the general case, but a URL having a file extension is actually a pretty good indication that it's a simple "does what it says on the tin". (Imgur changing their .jpg URLs to have more complex behaviour caused a pretty big backlash, for example)

Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by texaslonghorn5 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:24PM (#33309954)
Maybe this is just me, but I like that I can decouple the way I organize my file system from the way users access my site. And with that comes the ability to get rid of file extensions and make urls more human-friendly. Remember, not every person has file extensions turned on by default on their Windows File Explorer!
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by P5fRxh5kUvp2th on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:32PM (#33310008)
It's just you.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by texaslonghorn5 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:45PM (#33310100)
Ok, I set myself up for that.

Do you have experience running websites that cater to the non tech savvy? How are your urls set up? Do they get confused where to find things? Do you use a database? Do you dynamically render content using templates?

Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by jon-wood on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:57PM (#33310197)
Not the GP here, but having run websites for the non tech savvy I can say they have no problems with any sort of URL structure because they are oblivious to URLs. They enter your-site.com into Google, click the first result (even if that’s an ad for your competitor), and then click round the links presented.
Re:Cloudflare Pages: Best server tech since CGI-bin? by presentation on Sunday October 23, 2022 @08:19PM (#33311641)
My web server is not exposing file system paths to the user, it is deciding on content programmatically and it’s purely an aesthetic coincidence that the url path looks like a file system path.