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Re:Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP by FeepingCreature on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:23PM (#33308098)
> which highlights a point i like to make: if you wish to defend KF, first you have to justify the concrete speech being carried out on it

Speech does not require justification any more than any other right does. As a principle, speech is not for something. So I in fact have to neither justify nor endorse KF to consider this wrong.

Re:Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP by geofft on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:40PM (#33308244)
Then how do you decide what is (or should be) a right and what is not? Suppose someone claims a right to gay marriage, or a right to employ only people of their race, or a right to bear arms - how does society (the citizenry, the legislature, and/or the courts) decide whether that is indeed a right?

Absent a holy book given to us by the divine, the way we decide what is and isn't a right is we look at its effect. Places that recognize a right to bear arms, for instance, do so because they believe that arming the citizenry protects them against abuses of the government. Places that don't do so because they believe that disarming the citizenry protects them against crimes from other citizens.

Free speech is not axiomatic. Free speech is a right (and I agree it is a right!) because it has particular positive effects on society, through the benefits of open and unfiltered public discourse.

Re:Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP by FeepingCreature on Sunday October 23, 2022 @01:12PM (#33308483)
I mean, we could try using the democratic process, that seems to have worked reasonably well so far.

But you're right that I hold free speech to be a right for its own sake. So it's that I first believe that to be a right, on grounds of personal preference, and then I advocate for it because of that. But obviously I cannot convince someone on that basis - though that goes for pretty much every preference.

That said, I think the particular issue here is that the abrogation of the right of free speech created by this action did not come about through any particular instance of the democratic process, and is not actually based on any process of formally weighing rights against one another, but rather who can threaten to cost companies the most revenue.

Re:Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP by lbruno on Sunday October 23, 2022 @05:09PM (#33310273)
lol, speech isn't an absolute right where i grew up, thankfully

i'm European, you're arguing as if i had to meekly accept your framing that impeding someone from speaking is a bad thing

who is speaking and what they're saying is crucial to that assessment, hence you get to justify e.g. the threats KF orchestrated in Belfast if you want to justify keeping KF on the air

Re:Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP by bembi on Monday October 31, 2022 @03:48PM (#33411802)
lol im from europe too, have fun being muzzled like a dog when its ur turn