New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions

Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday October 20, 2022 @04:36PM (#33280328)

I think this is great, and though I agree that determining whether there is an "on-going cost to the manufacturer" will be a gray area that automakers will try to game, I think that's a solvable problem.

The heated seats example is a great one. There is no reason for this not be a one-time charge.

On the other hand, I think it's fair to offer autopilot/"full self driving" on a subscription, or at least the upgrades as a subscription. Clearly there is a large ongoing cost to continually improve self-driving capabilities, and it seems reasonable to me to have a pricing model that reflects that.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by fintechjock on Thursday October 20, 2022 @05:04PM (#33280676)

> On the other hand, I think it's fair to offer autopilot/"full self driving" on a subscription, or at least the upgrades as a subscription.

Agree with your overall point. However, this probably isn’t feasible considering most companies will follow Tesla’s FSD upgrade model.

Autopilot / FSD upgrades are often more safety than feature related. Allowing people to opt out of upgrades but keep their older FSD just means a bunch of vehicles on the road with depreciated safety features.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by userbinator on Thursday October 20, 2022 @08:11PM (#33282562)

Allowing people to opt out of upgrades but keep their older FSD just means a bunch of vehicles on the road with depreciated safety features.

...which is perfectly fine and has been the status quo since the beginning of the automotive era --- vehicles only need to meet the safety requirements when they were manufactured.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by kyleee on Thursday October 20, 2022 @10:12PM (#33283585)

Not perfectly fine in the context of “move fast and break things” software dev cycle used for safety critical things like auto pilot. Out of date auto pilot versions are going to have vulnerabilities and bugs (known and unknown) that will likely cause death, destruction, etc. on public roads

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by userbinator on Friday October 21, 2022 @12:45AM (#33284606)

known and unknown) that will likely cause death, destruction, etc. on public roads

...and so do human brains...

As long as the driver is still liable, I don't see a problem.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by leetcrew on Thursday October 20, 2022 @05:16PM (#33280835)

> The heated seats example is a great one. There is no reason for this not be a one-time charge.

if you're referring to BMW, the heated seats are still available as a one time charge. they're just also available as a subscription if you didn't option then upfront. heated seats seem like a weird fit for the subscription model, but as long as the upfront purchase option is reasonably priced, I don't really see the issue with this.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by dahdum on Thursday October 20, 2022 @06:14PM (#33281502)

The issue is you already paid for the heating element in the seats when you bought the car, and you are driving it around as dead weight (however small). You own the heater outright, they are gatekeeping your ability to use it.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by paxys on Thursday October 20, 2022 @06:18PM (#33281534)

That has nothing to do with subscriptions. The manufacturer could still sell you the car with the heater disabled, make you drive around with the dead weight, and charge you a one-time fee to unlock it. That would be perfectly acceptable under this law.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by _carbyau_ on Thursday October 20, 2022 @11:06PM (#33283999)

Under this law that's fine sure. But how far do they go with this plan? Do they cost up each part of the car and allow you to use only that bit. And when you have bought enough of a car it can then serve as your transport?

The desired rule is hard to pin down though isn't it? But subscriptions, DLC, DRM etc all grate on consumers as not quite right somehow.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by prvit on Thursday October 20, 2022 @10:16PM (#33283623)

That's been happening for ... decades? It's not unusual that the "heated seats" option just gets you a button, the heating elements are often installed regardless.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by diebeforei485 on Monday October 24, 2022 @09:53PM (#33325207)

This is also true of CPU's, GPU's, etc etc that have cores disabled.

Sometimes they are are disabled because they failed tests, but other times they are disabled to fulfill demand in a different segment.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by caf on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @01:49AM (#33326715)

The issue is you already paid for the heating element in the seats when you bought the car

Not necessarily - it's possible the cost of that item in the BOM is separated and offset only against the expected revenue from those paying specifically to have it.

Anyway, here's how I'd split this baby: BMW can charge to enable the heated seats in whatever way they want, but the consumer is also allowed to modchip their car to enable the heated seats without paying if they want.

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by mancerayder on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:53AM (#33288607)

The issue is it's a physical option that is being turned on and off remotely, not a software ML / continuous model type of service like full self-driving. The latter requires continuous updating and there's an ecosystem of training it. Heated seats existed for decades, BMW added a software option to disable it. That's completely different.

And it's not OK. How many monthly add-on costs can be snuck into the subscription model?

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Re:New Jersey Legislators Aim to Ban Most In-Car Subscriptions by m463 on Thursday October 20, 2022 @07:45PM (#33282364)

Maybe the wording should be ambiguous like "high crimes and misdemeanors" so manufacturers honor the intent of the law.

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