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Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by ajkjk on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @10:54AM (#33248172)
> I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know that he was the boss and I'd do my best to accomplish anything he assigned me.

Never got this kind of behavior. I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit. He can ask around for other opinions so it's not just coming from me but it's a hard line.

Of course this mostly works cause as a developer you don't need to be afraid of finding another job. But that's good. Workers having leverage over bosses is good.

Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by tomtheelder on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @12:07PM (#33249572)
> I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit.

The reason not to do this is that you're very likely to provoke a defensive response and have the other person dig in their heels. A gentler approach is more likely to get results, less likely to create tension in the relationship, and sets the tone of future decision making as adversarial.

If that doesn't work you can try firmer approaches, and you can of course always quit or use the threat of quitting, but 99 times out of 100 leading with that will lead to worse outcomes.

You don't give up any leverage by first trying to resolve conflicts without threats.

Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by ajkjk on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @12:56PM (#33250444)
Well the magnitude of your response should be calibrated to the magnitude of the grievance. A new boss coming in and changing everything in a way nobody signed up for or is on board with is very egregious, and I _will_ quit if they don't back down, so I'm going to tell them that. It's a statement of fact. If they don't stop, and I quit, and I didn't say that ahead of time, then I haven't communicated what I meant to.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by datavirtue on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @03:07PM (#33252364)
I find it much more satisfying to smile and nod and then leave unexpectedly without notice.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by ajkjk on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:10PM (#33253172)
mm. I don't believe in doing that. You don't owe anything to the company as an abstract entity, but I believe you can be honest about your plans because it's respectful of the people around you, as people.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by tomtheelder on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @11:31AM (#33263673)
> Well the magnitude of your response should be calibrated to the magnitude of the grievance.

This is where I disagree. The magnitude of response should be determined by the likelihood of achieving the desired outcome. Sometimes that requires drawing a really firm line, but usually it does not. And I'd argue that it virtually never involves drawing that line as your first strategy.

Like I said, you should absolutely be willing to make that threat, and to walk away, but I don't think there's any benefit to yourself in leading with it. If your initial attempt fails, then try something more drastic until you either get your desired result or quit.

I don't think you can expect people to be rational all, or even most of the time. Just because something is a fact does not mean it is necessary or beneficial to say it.

Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by colinmhayes on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @12:20PM (#33249807)
People don't always react rationally when you call them out like that. Being too aggressive confrontational is not a path to changing minds or accomplishing your goals.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by ajkjk on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:11PM (#33253180)
Well -- if they react poorly, I'll quit sooner, dodging a bullet in the process.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by duped on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @04:40PM (#33253573)
It sounds like you're the one who is reacting poorly in this context. OP is describing exactly what you're talking about without being an asshole about it.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by ajkjk on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @09:43PM (#33256403)
It really comes down to what you think of "...know that he was the boss and I'd do my best to accomplish anything he assigned me." To me that is... 20th century-style salaryman subservience, aka, super problematic and repulsive. The idea that the bosses' whim is your command is disgusting to me.
Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by colinmhayes on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @05:21PM (#33254169)
Yea maybe you’re the one reacting poorly by being an ass instead of trying to communicate in a healthy way.

This is literally the point of the OP by the way, most people aren’t out to get you, and can be convinced of things if you communicate respectfully. No one wants to work with someone who goes out of their way to tear them down.

Re:Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job by drewcoo on Tuesday October 18, 2022 @01:24PM (#33250897)
You're treating it like a career.

The parent is treating it like a job.

No judgement from me on this, but that's the difference.