News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by photochemsyn on Friday October 14, 2022 @07:49PM (#33210148)
Given China's known role in fentanyl production and now this revelation about the other end of the trade, could it be they view this as some kind of long-term payback for things that took place some 200 years ago?

Source: Smuggler Nation: How Illicit Trade Made America by Peter Andreas (2013)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13689883-smuggler-nation

> "Smuggling was also common practice for U.S. merchant ships penetrating the Chinese market for the first time... In the first decade of the nineteenth century, U.S. merchants would also begin to make inroads into the ilicit China opium market, much to the alarm of the British East India Company, which jealously protected its opium-smuggling monopoly. Jacque Downs, the foremost historian of the early U.S.-China opium trade, writes: "The Americans were marvelously ingenious in their exploitation of the commerce. They managed to circumvent both the East India Company's franchise and the Chinese Government's prohibition and carried on a very lucrative, if antisocial and ultimately ruinous trade." Dominated by a handful of players, opium smuggling by American shippers would become increasingly vital to U.S.-China trade relations, with opium sales generating the revenue to buy Chinese goods such as silks and teas. Many of America's most elite merchant families made fortunes in the opium trade: "Girard, Astor, Joseph Peabody of Salem, John Donnell of Baltimore, and the Perkins firm (now allied with Bryant and Sturgis) were among the largest shippers of the drug." "

Yes, legalization/decriminalization plus public health education campaigns and a ban on marketing and doctor kickbacks would probably destroy drug profits around the world.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by fma on Friday October 14, 2022 @09:09PM (#33210596)
Well, per the article...

"Some U.S. officials go further, arguing that Chinese authorities have decided as a matter of policy to foster the drug trade in the Americas in order to destabilize the region and spread corruption, addiction and death here."

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by throwaway12388 on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:41PM (#33211190)
Everyone knows that China is taking a revenge against the west for its crimes. No idea where it ends though
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by kurthr on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:57PM (#33211282)
If you read mandarin language posts (and even some semi-official ones), the answer is yes. It is considered "pay back".

Just as it is used in other countries racial hatred and jingoism is also used in China for political and social control (or to justify immoral profits).

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by eunos on Saturday October 15, 2022 @07:03AM (#33213708)
After all what US gov did to China these years, Chinese govt has no incentive to help US drug issue
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by kurthr on Saturday October 15, 2022 @01:40PM (#33216868)
I guess you'll have no problem with the Uyghurs of Xinjiang nuking Fuping in Shaanxi then. Eye for an eye and all. Russia was part of the opium wars so maybe they just forget to secure an old warhead. Or India decides that the millions who died of Covid are China's fault and fail to stop development and delivery of a bio-weapon. Nice country... shame if something bad was to happen to it. Everything is transactional and zero sum, greed is good.

Oh, that's right it would be terrible and millions would suffer from terrorism through nuclear, biological, or chemical means so maybe enforcing your own laws equitably would be a reasonable plan?

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by eunos on Saturday October 15, 2022 @08:07PM (#33219845)
Forget did, do. Trade wars and everything is still going.

Also good thing China has nuke and willing to go beyond 300 warheads.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by kurthr on Saturday October 15, 2022 @11:12PM (#33220745)
Good for the cockroaches (or whatever is left in the radioactive pit), I suppose.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by refurb on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:04PM (#33211319)
I think “payback” is a stretch. The opium wars were 160 years ago.

The simpler explanation is it’s a lucrative way to make money.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Our_Benefactors on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:25PM (#33211430)
It’s easy to say that if you lack the Chinese perspective. They point to the opium wars as the reason they failed to industrialize at the same time as other nations. And that they are still digging out of that hole to this day. With this perspective in mind, the motive to continue pushing fentanyl is clear. In the relentless Chinese narrative about their “5000 years of continuous culture”, 160 years is a blink of an eye to settle the score.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by refurb on Saturday October 15, 2022 @12:05AM (#33211650)
I mean, sure but if you're a corrupt criminal gang, how high does "payback for the Opium Wars" rank compared to just making money?

It's one of those "just so stories" that people love because it ties everything into a nice bow.

I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but if the Opium Wars never happened does anyone believe they wouldn't be doing the same thing anyways?

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Our_Benefactors on Saturday October 15, 2022 @12:17AM (#33211706)
Are you aware that China had to pay silver (and ONLY silver) for opium? The motivation then was arguably only “to make money” even though the indolent effects of opium addiction was clear. The suppliers of narcotics always make money. As a modern day dealer with a grudge and a playbook, why not kill two birds with one stone?
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by refurb on Saturday October 15, 2022 @12:22AM (#33211725)
I've never encountered a situation where people need an excuse beyond "make a shit ton of money" to sell drugs.

I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways.

It's like claiming smuggling of liquor from Canada to the US during prohibition was Canada's attempt at getting back at the US for the War of 1812. Nahh.. they just wanted to make a crap ton of money.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Our_Benefactors on Saturday October 15, 2022 @12:35AM (#33211777)
> I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways.

I’ll bet you aren’t familiar with the grammar school Chinese history curriculum.

Besides, as a modern kingpin, think with scale! Recruiting goes much smoother when you can sell it as “you’re a soldier for the country, fighting an undercover war”. How many companies have “make money” as their mission statement besides Amazon?

The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare.

Oh, and as far as USA vs British East India Company, it’s all “the west” in the end.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Cederfjard on Saturday October 15, 2022 @07:37AM (#33213912)
> The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare.

Since we’re speculating freely anyway, why does the revenge have to come in the same form as the initial affront?

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Lio on Saturday October 15, 2022 @03:17AM (#33212570)
Canada doesn’t need to get back at the US for the war of 1812 because Canada won the war of 1812. ;)
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by DiogenesKynikos on Saturday October 15, 2022 @04:10AM (#33212840)
Canada didn't exist in 1812. It was "upper Canada," just one of the British North American colonies.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Lio on Saturday October 15, 2022 @03:15AM (#33212565)
Isn’t the reason that they payed with silver a reflection that China itself would only accept silver for goods such as tea at that time?
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by Our_Benefactors on Saturday October 15, 2022 @03:45AM (#33212706)
Yes, so by closing the trade loop with opium, there was a large net outflow of silver in addition to many other types of goods.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by thedailymail on Saturday October 15, 2022 @05:46AM (#33213297)
Mark Twain made what I consider one of history's greatest puns when he described the American role in the opium trade as "Taels I win, heads you lose."

(A tael was a unit of Chinese silver bullion; heads references the death penalty for drug running, which applied only to Chinese subjects for most of the opium years.)

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by JusticeJuice on Saturday October 15, 2022 @01:35AM (#33212050)
I mean the launderers just want to make money, that’s obvious enough. The argument is if the ccp is viewing this as payback by choosing to not catch the money in their banking system, or catch communication in WeChat, which they monitor. Turning a blind eye on purpose.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by sumedh on Saturday October 15, 2022 @01:36AM (#33212053)
> compared to just making money?

Making money and then feeling patriotic that you are helping China slowly destroy America because of what they did in the past.

Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by ackbar03 on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:17PM (#33211390)
Opium wars didn't even involve America though. I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume it is intentional for any specific reason.
Re:A Chinese American gangster transformed money laundering ... by DeathArrow on Saturday October 15, 2022 @03:54AM (#33212751)
160 years is nothing if you are Chinese. They think over very long periods of time.