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Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by Gwypaas on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:47PM (#33208022)
The research agrees with you. Mind that fossil fuels are cheaper than nuclear.

> *B. Dealing With Variability and Stability*

> Much of the resistance towards 100% Renewable Energy (RE) systems in the literature seems to come from the a-priori assumption that an energy system based on solar and wind is impossible since these energy sources are variable. Critics of 100% RE systems like to contrast solar and wind with ’firm’ energy sources like nuclear and fossil fuels (often combined with CCS) that bring their own storage. This is the key point made in some already mentioned reactions, such as those by Clack et al. [225], Trainer [226], Heard et al. [227] Jenkins et al. [228], and Caldeira et al. [275], [276].

> However, while it is true that keeping a system with variable sources stable is more complex, a range of strategies can be employed that are often ignored or underutilized in critical studies: oversizing solar and wind capacities; strengthening interconnections [68], [82], [132], [143], [277], [278]; demand response [279], [172], e.g. smart electric vehicles charging using delayed charging or delivering energy back to the electricity grid via vehicle-to-grid [181], [280]–[282]; storage (battery, compressed air, pumped hydro)[40]–[43], [46], [83], [140], [142], such as stationary batteries; sector coupling [16], [39], [90]–[92], [97], [132], [216], e.g. optimizing the interaction between electricity, heat, transport, and industry; power-to-X [39], [106], [134], [176], e.g. producing hydrogen at moments when there is abundant energy; et cetera. Using all these strategies effectively to mitigate variability is where much of the cutting-edge development of 100% RE scenarios takes place.

> With every iteration in the research and with every technological breakthrough in these areas, 100% RE systems become increasingly viable. Even former critics must admit that adding e-fuels through PtX makes 100% RE possible at costs similar to fossil fuels. These critics are still questioning whether 100% RE is the cheapest solution but no longer claim it would be unfeasible or prohibitively expensive. Variability, especially short term, has many mitigation options, and energy system studies are increasingly capturing these in their 100% RE scenarios.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9837910

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by arcticbull on Friday October 14, 2022 @04:23PM (#33208400)
Fossil fuel energy isn't cheaper than nuclear, the deaths they cause aren't priced in. Coal kills 25 people per TWh, and the NRC uses an actuarial cost of $9M per death. That means coal should be $0.35/kWh.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by xupybd on Friday October 14, 2022 @05:20PM (#33208934)
I think one of the problems is we need proof at scale. Yes there are many theoretical ways to store energy for the grid but until we see a reasonable implementation it's a hard argument to sell.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Friday October 14, 2022 @09:35PM (#33210760)
You realize exactly the same argument hits nuclear, right? Current commercial reactors cannot be scaled to power the world, since there isn't enough sufficiently cheap uranium. Breeders or radical new uranium sources are needed, and neither have proof at scale.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by xupybd on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:39PM (#33211182)
I think we're talking about different scales. Yes we haven't seen world wide nuclear but we have seen large cities worth of power. I think if we had that demonstrated with renewable storage it would look much better on paper.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:54PM (#33211259)
If nuclear is not going to power the world, then renewables will have to. If nuclear supplies any substantial portion of the world's energy demand the issues I raised will bite. So to allow nuclear to evade those issues for ~1 generation of nuclear plants, renewables would have to supply almost all the world's energy demand. So that means storage will have to be solved (as nuclear would be horribly unsuited to covering outages in a renewable energy system.)

Given that renewables and storage will have to be made to work, and are likely to be cheaper, I don't see the point of nuclear in this scenario.

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by xupybd on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:00PM (#33211305)
I don't think 100% nuclear is the solution and long term renewables are a far better option. Mid term nuclear has a place.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:07PM (#33211340)
I think existing nuclear plants can remain operating in many cases. But building new plants? I don't see that making sense anywhere.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by xupybd on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:32PM (#33211473)
In Europe now that Russian gas is not on tap?
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:38PM (#33211502)
Building new nuclear plants would be a silly response to the current energy shock in Europe, since it would take so long for new NPPs to come on line. Renewables to reduce gas demand make much more sense, available both more quickly and more cheaply.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by scarby2 on Saturday October 15, 2022 @01:03AM (#33211920)
Why not do both?

I don't want to be here in 30 years time wishing we'd built reactors 30 years ago (which is where we are today)

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Saturday October 15, 2022 @07:47AM (#33213971)
Why not? Because it's economically pointless to build more nuclear at current prices.

The current situation where you might regret not having built more reactors 30 years ago is not comparable. Renewables were not competitive with nuclear 30 years ago. But that situation no longer obtains.

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by jskrablin on Saturday October 15, 2022 @06:15AM (#33213438)
Renewables require backup generation. And usually that's gas burning powerplants because they have very short startup times. Main reason for wild prices of electricity in EU is gas supply crisis.
Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Saturday October 15, 2022 @07:44AM (#33213958)
As response to the loss of Russian gas, renewables don't have to replace all fossil fuels. They just have to reduce fossil consumption enough to compensate for that loss.

Eventually, all fossil fuel use must be replaced, but that has nothing to do with the issue of responding to Putin that I was addressing. And the backup generation can eventually be non-fossil also, particularly hydrogen. Europe has massive amounts of potential capacity for underground storage for hydrogen, far more than would be needed.

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by riffraff on Saturday October 15, 2022 @12:13AM (#33211686)
Don't we have a similar issue with demand for lithium for batteries and rare earths for PV panels to the issue we have for uranium/nuclear?

It is my impression both pro-renewables and pro-nuclear like to downplay the resource sourcing issues.

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by tuatoru on Saturday October 15, 2022 @06:10AM (#33213402)
There isn't a resource problem for batteries.

Lithium is best for mobility applications and lithium formulations are much further down the learning curve than other chemistries.

However, all of vanadium redox, iron-air, organic polymer-based, calcium salt, and sodium chemistries are very nearly competitive, or actually competitive with lithium in various grid storage niches despite being at the very beginning of their learning curves. Is there ever going to be a shortage of iron or sodium? Or calcium or carbon, for that matter? No.

Re:The first Gen III+ Nuclear plant begins fuel loading by pfdietz on Saturday October 15, 2022 @08:01AM (#33214069)
No, because there are thousands of potential battery chemistries (and storage technologies other than batteries), and also because the oft-repeated falsehood that PV contains rare earths is still false.