Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by incahoots on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:27PM
(#33180199)
That's a risk not worth taking, by what measure can one gain by speaking with any LEO?
The folks who have do not carry a fear of prosecution because they can afford to remove themselves from any danger. However; those who do not, suffer under the obfuscated rules of law.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by techwizrd on Thursday October 13, 2022 @04:28PM
(#33196097)
I did not make any claims that one should speak with LEOs. I was merely pointing out that the parent's claim was at best a misunderstanding of the law.
Beyond identifying yourself to LEOs, Don't Talk To The Police [0] without your lawyer present.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by lp0_on_fire on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:49PM
(#33179640)
That's all well and good for the DOJ, which has virtually unlimited time and funding with an army of lawyers. No so much for regular Joe who is caught in the position OP discussed.
The threat of legal action alone is enough to scare _most_ people in this country because they simply can't afford it.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by sodality2 on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:59PM
(#33179788)
By that logic, if the law doesn’t actually matter, a regular police officer could also simply threaten the same thing, and there’s nothing differentiating them with the FBI. In both cases it would scare most people because they can’t afford it.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by Supermancho on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:08PM
(#33179930)
That is the current state of the US law enforcement (2022).
What's interesting about extortion by law enforcement, is that they are not held accountable for describing things that are not true. It's not extortion, if a hypothetical situation is presented as an investigatory method and goes no further.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by RetpolineDrama on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:42PM
(#33180394)
https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-plea...
Great writeup on the topic
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by shiftpgdn on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @02:44PM
(#33181238)
I have personally been threatened by FBI agents with threats of being charged for "making false statements" to compel me to divulge information on an investigation. I believe it may be a common tool in their playbook based on how quickly they utilized it.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by RetpolineDrama on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @03:04PM
(#33181527)
Holy cow, that sounds terrifying. How did you handle it? Had you already made statements prior to the threat that (in hindsight) were bait/designed to trap you?
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by notch656a on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @04:27PM
(#33182610)
Feds are shifty bastards. I had one come to my house. When I refused to speak, and I started shutting the door, they stuck their hand in so they could claim assault if I shut it. Fortunately I was using my hand to close it, rather than slamming it as I normally do, and I was able to stop it before it hit their hand. We stared at each other in silence for a solid minute and they left. Fucking weird.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by metadat on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:52PM
(#33185364)
That is creepy as hell, sounds like you had an encounter with Agent Smith from The Matrix, except for reals.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by aidenn0 on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @03:13PM
(#33181652)
Martha Stewart was investigated for securities fraud, but only was convicted of obstruction of justice and making false statements. It is entirely possible that if she had just refused to talk to the feds she would have not been charged with anything.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows
by stjohnswarts on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @10:11PM
(#33186332)
It is the case. They weaponize "lying" to the FBI and can get you several years in federal prison just for that. It is a common tactic in banana republics and the USA (something we are quickly approaching). They then use this as leverage to get what they want out of you.
The _actual_ wording of 18 USC § 1001 is "[...] knowingly and willfully" "(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; [...]" [0], not simply "providing false statements."
The DOJ must show that the statement was false, the fact is material to the case, that you knew it was false when you made it, and that it does not fall under the exceptions carved out by DOJ policy [1]. That is very different from what you're claiming.
In your example, the rain on Thursday must actually be important to the case and you must knowingly be attempting to deceive the federal investigators. Your honest-but-wrong answer does not mean you are now able to be charged with providing false statements to a federal criminal investigator under 18 USC § 1001.
0: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
1: https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-9-42000-fraud-against-the-gove...