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Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by frankfrankfrank on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @06:42AM (#33175093)
Is there really no bound to the latent paternalistic Noble Savage type racism through the assumption that “poorer countries” (code for “brown people”; as it is safe to assume, e.g., Americans are not referring to poorer Germany, or Germans to poorer Spain) have no agency and must be cared for and excuses made for in all directions about everything; nothing is ever the “poorer country’s” fault.

As it relates to this topic; if you are a “poorer country” and you accept trash, for whatever reason, to someone not racist, it then is your fault and something your society needs to resolve just as “richer countries” were permitted to do on their own, if that trash gets into the ocean, just like if it were the other way around. Or are we to blame the “poorer countries” for providing the natural resources that then end up as trash in the oceans? No, the racism then does a pivot and of course the “poorer countries” are absolved of responsibility in that case too, because the racist sees them as having no agency, infantilized, needing to be cared for by the superior “richer countries”.

If people want to give up racism, which seems to merely be little more than a platitude for self-righteous paternalistic racism, the same argument made for slavery, then they have to stop with the paternalistic Noble Savage racism that denies agency. Stop it!

Essentially it comes down to this, are people of different races equal and therefore equally responsible for their actions or are they not equals? It’s up to you, racist.

If they are equals and one wants to not be racist, then the foregone conclusion cannot always be that nothing is ever the fault of “poorer countries”. That is the mind of abusiveness, constant moving of the target, once referred to as “the bigotry of low expectations”, aka racism.

Let’s try better and let’s call out these types of racism and the racist who promote them.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by rTX5CMRXIfFG on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:28AM (#33175407)
Wow, you went a long way to make this about race. It’s not even like brown people wrote the article.

Heck, if you want poor countries to be accountable for their own pollution then they shouldn’t be forced to trade with developed countries who don’t want to make any concessions about the use of plastics, but I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be a popular stance with HN either.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by doix on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:34AM (#33175465)
Did we read the same article? Isn't the article basically saying that even if rich countries completely stopped exporting waste, it wouldn't make _that_ much of a difference? i.e

> If rich countries banned the export of plastic waste to these countries, we might reduce plastic pollution a bit: perhaps up to 5%.

> But, an end to trade won’t stop plastic pollution. Only a small fraction of the world’s plastic waste is traded – under 2%. And most – two-thirds of it – ends up in richer countries, where it’s very unlikely to end up in the ocean.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by baxtr on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:17AM (#33175324)
I am not sure why you read this as "who's fault is this"?

I read this as "let's make this transparent".

From my perspective, who to blame and what to do is a second order question.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by ifqwz on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:22AM (#33175364)
What's the point in making something transparent, if it isn't so it can be fixed?
Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by NineStarPoint on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:55AM (#33175639)
Making something transparent can help identify if something should be fixed at all. Sometimes the transparency shows that the issue is arising from something that is worth the issues it is generating.

So you make it transparent, and then you can look and determine what is or isn’t worth doing.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by tsimionescu on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @06:48AM (#33175136)
You can believe that it's the "poorer countries'" fault that they are releasing plastics into the ocean AND that it's also "richer countries'" fault for sending their trash to known bad actors.
Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by maxerickson on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @06:46AM (#33175118)
Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me for 6 decades, I dunno, maybe I could have made an assumption about what you were going to do the next time.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by okintheory on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:25AM (#33175386)
Suppose you're broke and then some rich guy walks up to you on the street and loudly proclaims "throwing plastic in this river next to us would be terrible! I would never do it! But, would you mind taking this plastic cup for me? I'll pay you $100 to take it! And I don't care what you do with it ;)".

What would you do?

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by mpweiher on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:31AM (#33175432)
TFA:

"That means that around 2% of waste is traded"

"Most of the plastic that enters the oceans from land comes from rivers in Asia.1 More than 80% of it."

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by nicbou on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @07:44AM (#33175541)
It's less about race and more about means. From each according to his ability.

Someone living comfortably in Western Europe can afford to stick to his principles. He has the extra money and energy to give a damn. He can cut meat, drive less, fly less, consume less.

It's silly for someone who enjoys air conditioning and two international trips a year, to tell people in developing countries to do their bit. It costs far less to do ours.

This is not a paternalistic view of people in developing countries, it's a critical look at our own inaction.

Re:How much do rich countries contribute by shipping their w... by citrin_ru on Friday October 14, 2022 @03:36AM (#33200650)
Carrying an empty plastic bottle / food packaging to the nearest litter bin (or even home if there are no public bins) costs no money and very little energy. I do this all the time even when I'm very tired. From what I see throwing litter around in many countries is socially accepted behavior. It's not like they have no choice and more like they don't see it being wrong.

I do see a correlation between amount of litter on the ground and country economical/political development but cannot think of a convincing casual link here.