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Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by rayiner on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:25PM (#33116742)
This. I think marijuana should be illegal (but at the state level) but this seems to me like a smart move politically. Doing popular things to get votes is a good thing. That’s kind of the whole theory of democracy.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by WirelessGigabit on Thursday October 06, 2022 @10:37PM (#33116818)
Why should it be illegal? I can just order stuff online here, and get some gummies delivered. Doesn’t bother anybody.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by dbrueck on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:05PM (#33116981)
> Why should it be illegal?

For the same reasons any other substance is regulated, because it can affect other people, see e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/newsroom/feature/marijuana-and-dri....

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by woodruffw on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:19PM (#33117056)
To my knowledge, very few people want marijuana to be completely unregulated. Most seem to be very okay with an aggressive tax and regulation structure, in exchange for legal purchase.

In other words: regulation does not itself justify criminalization.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by dbrueck on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:20PM (#33117063)
Completely agree.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by mjthrowaway1 on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:15AM (#33117358)
Aggressive taxes create a black market for goods. To protect the tax revenue the govt must be aggressive about prosecuting unlicensed operators who do not pay taxes. This is counter to the social politics of wanting to end the war on drugs.

As a compromise the govt heavily taxes legal businesses while allowing the black market to thrive with minimal punishment. C’est la vie.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by woodruffw on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:31AM (#33117465)
This isn't a uniform truth about taxes, even aggressive ones: the evidence so far around marijuana legalization has been than consumers have been more than happy to pay high taxes, because the net cost of marijuana is still similar to or lower than the pre-legal cost.

We might eventually see a variant of tax stamp fraud for marijuana, the way some states do for cigarettes. But that's just the nature of these things, like you said, and I think the general trend is a "win," in terms of eliminating WoD policies.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by mjthrowaway1 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:42PM (#33126642)
In California the estimate is that 25% of consumers are buying from licensed retailers.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by Sabinus on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:29AM (#33117453)
>As a compromise the govt heavily taxes legal businesses while allowing the black market to thrive with minimal punishment. C’est la vie.

And meanwhile billions were taken out of the black market, and the government increased tax receipts.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (or in the case, 'better').

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by codewench on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:26AM (#33117440)
As compared to now, with a thriving black market, and aggressive prosecution of all parties?
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by fknorangesite on Friday October 07, 2022 @10:20AM (#33121708)
Marijuana has been legal-and-regulated in Canada for years. I assure you that the sky hasn't fallen.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by raunak on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:13PM (#33117024)
Also being realistic, anyone who’s ever ever ever smoked weed in their life can tell you honestly it does not impair your ability to drive even 10% close to being drunk. yes it’s an anecdote, but it’s genuinely the truth.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by dbrueck on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:20PM (#33117061)
As I noted elsewhere, I'm not at all arguing in favor of marijuana being illegal (personally, I don't care about it, and agree that if we care about how substance usage affects others, marijuana is not the highest priority).
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by RandallBrown on Friday October 07, 2022 @01:29AM (#33117763)
This is... not my experience with marijuana. I couldn't imagine driving while high. I don't even like walking while I'm high because my balance and reaction times get really messed up.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by JAlexoid on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:28AM (#33118066)
Yes, you're incapable... because THC is a sedative.

You're more likely to eat and fall asleep, than to have reduced inhibitions.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by JAlexoid on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:27AM (#33118058)
THC is a sedative, which you feel very well.

High doses can cause underlying conditions to surface, but it's not nearly as destructive as alcohol.

People who get paranoid on THC, are way more belligerent on alcohol.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by raxxorraxor on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:54AM (#33118210)
Pretty sure that part of the phenomenon of people getting paranoid from being stoned has to do with the prosecution in the first place, the drug enhancing this perception or not.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by pstuart on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:10PM (#33117005)
That's the public excuse. The reality is that it's a powerful tool to oppress "others" -- https://www.aclu.org/post-to-social/war-drugs-racist

This is well documented, the above link is one of many.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by dbrueck on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:18PM (#33117053)
It doesn't have to be an either-or. To be clear, I'm not personally advocating that marijuana be illegal, just answering the earlier comment that was arguing that use of marijuana affects nobody but the user, which can sometimes be true but is definitely not always true, and that is one of the main the bases for substance regulation.

The fact that how substances are regulated is irregular and inconsistent is a separate issue from whether or not it's ok for a society to regulate some substances.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by JAlexoid on Friday October 07, 2022 @02:32AM (#33118082)
Having neurosyphilis will affect "others".

The bar for "affects others" is extremely low in society.

Unless there's a very clear study, that a certain substance will cause an average human being to be aggressive, belligerent and violent - there's hardly a case for "affects others".

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by galangalalgol on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:05AM (#33120699)
What do you mean by irregular or inconsistent? That some substances extremely harmful to society are loosely regulated while mostly innocuous ones put people in prison? That is troublesome. But if you mean variation by state, I think that is normal and should be moreso. I like my content labels, but I don't understand why the protection of interstate commerce means the FDA gets to tell my doctor which drugs they can prescribe for which conditions. Federal prohibition of alcohol required an amendment. The federal prohibition on any substance for any reason should require the same. There are plenty of items that are contraband in one state but not the next, that is no reason to ignore explicit limits on federal power.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by pstuart on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:13PM (#33126356)
I'm an advocate for the legalization of all drugs, but that it should be taxed and regulated as well.

All drug use has risks, including cannabis. But it's been so demonized in the past there's a natural reaction to sweep all concerns away because almost all of them are garbage. Reasonable regulation would be that it's not sold to minors, and that its active ingredients be accurately noted, and that the transaction is taxed appropriately.

It should be legal to sell fentanyl but not as an adulterant. Most of these opioid deaths are due to fentanyl and if they had access to regulated drugs those deaths would be greatly diminished.

My brother died of a heroin overdose many years ago, and I think he might be alive today if the drug he was abusing was at least calibrated for dosage. Maybe not. But it being illegal did not protect him or any of the others lost in the war on drugs.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by rayiner on Friday October 07, 2022 @08:45AM (#33120465)
I don’t believe in the concept of “victimless crimes.” Society should enforce moral standards and help people make good decisions. Why do you need marijuana? It doesn’t seem necessary to me. Maybe for legitimate medical uses.

Edit: To respond to the dead comment below, I think banning alcohol would probably be a good thing. Alcohol exacts a terrible toll on women and children. It’s no surprise, then, that the first thing American women did with the right to vote was ban alcohol. Alcohol is banned in my home country, and many others.

That said, I’m afraid it’s too deeply embedded in western culture to make banning alcohol a realistic possibility. But just because that’s true, how does that justify legalizing and normalizing the new vice of drug use?

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by fknorangesite on Friday October 07, 2022 @10:19AM (#33121691)
> I think banning alcohol would probably be a good thing.

Yes, after all this worked so well the first time.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by rayiner on Friday October 07, 2022 @12:27PM (#33123491)
As I said, it might be impractical in a society where alcohol use and abuse is deeply ingrained in the culture. It works just fine in for example Muslim countries where there are social taboos to back up the law.

My point is that, even if alcohol prohibition is impractical in a western country, that’s not a reason to normalize and legalize a new and different vice.

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by OkayPhysicist on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:08PM (#33125604)
What moral standards? And more interestingly whose moral standards? What moral rule is violated by allowing vice, or what utility function is reduced?

If you don't establish such axiomatic foundations in conversations about morality, you're doomed to just talk past each other. For example, I treat free will and empathy as axiomatic goods. I don't like being told what to do, and I don't like harm coming to others. By extension, others having their free will suppressed is bad, but not axiomatically bad in so much as it can cause greater suppression of the freedom of others.

Under such a framework, it should be pretty obvious why I would oppose prohibition. If someone does something that in of itself does not harm others, then that thing is at worst ethically neutral, and thus there is no good to offset the ethical evil of interceding in them doing it. On the other hand, if someone is attempting to kill someone else, or enslave someone else, or otherwise suppress the other's ability to be free, then preventing that by any means necessary is a moral good.

So what are YOUR axioms that you are operating off of? What base assumptions underlie your "moral standards"?

Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by cudgy on Saturday October 08, 2022 @04:21AM (#33130703)
Well said. How do you feel requiring people to wear seat belts or helmets fits into this model?
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by inigoalonso on Saturday October 08, 2022 @06:24PM (#33136613)
People injured by being reckless take away medical resources from those that are injured by no fault of their own.
Re:Granting Pardon for the Offense of Simple Possession of M... by poopnugget on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:26PM (#33117082)
Thats why democracy is a problem. Why solve systemic problems like inflation when you can drop 10million barrels of oil and pardon some drug users the week before an election.