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Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by jstx1 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @02:40AM (#33105142)
> The market could only sustain $150,000 a year salaries for grads fresh out of college for so long before someone somewhere along the way ran out of money.

It seems a bit arbirtrary to pick high salaries as the reason for it. And to not blame spending billions on unprofitable projects like the metaverse, or having their profits affected by Apple's restrictions on tracking, or the steady decline in user experience. or the general image of the company being affected by a long list of scandals... <<< I would blame these factors before I point at graduates who earn above the market average.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by pavlov on Thursday October 06, 2022 @02:47AM (#33105198)
Hiring graduates at $200k is a major part of where the money goes when you’re spending billions on unprofitable software projects.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by initplus on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:13AM (#33106192)
Those projects aren't unprofitable because production costs are too high. The projects are unprofitable & failing because Facebook is struggling to execute on their grand plans, and are having their traditional core business eaten by a more nimble upstart competitor (TikTok).

I'm sure FB would love to be able to spend 2x on salaries if it came with a guarantee of turning the metaverse into a successful business venture, or of grabbing all the attention hours currently flowing to TikTok.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by roncesvalles on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:46AM (#33106344)
It could very well be that they didn't pay enough. My hypothesis for why tech pays so well is because success depends very heavily on the quality of the talent, and a few people can be the difference between billions of dollars in lost money vs. a machine that makes billions of dollars in annual recurring income.

It's hard to claim that a project failed because its budget was too big.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by yobbo on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:22AM (#33106543)
Income = Revenue - Expenses
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by mschuster91 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @04:21AM (#33105851)
I'd wager that astronomical housing costs are the biggest factor in these absurd salaries, followed by healthcare.

In the end it's a circle of money, from investors to mega-companies to their employees to their landlords which are again part of the investor class. Healthcare is just the same.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by neilparikh on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:08AM (#33106792)
> I'd wager that astronomical housing costs are the biggest factor in these absurd salaries, followed by healthcare.

The causal relationship is in the opposite direction: high salaries cause high housing costs. Law of rent gives a theoretical explanation of this, but we can see this empirically too: rents go up in cities after tech companies with high salaries start opening up offices there, not before. There are also plenty of places with low rent that have higher tech salaries than places with higher rents (compare essentially any US city to Toronto).

> In the end it's a circle of money, from investors to mega-companies to their employees to their landlords which are again part of the investor class.

At least in California, there's not that much overlap between tech company investors and landowners. The housing ownership is much more distributed, and often to "mom and pop" landlords. This is the flow of money in Silicon Valley (expressed in a slightly comic manner): https://twitter.com/nextdoorsv/status/1400165321609199620

It's a bit different in other locations with more consolidation in land ownership, but even there, I doubt there's much overlap (I have less knowledge of housing dynamics outside California, because they actually change, so I'm just guessing here).

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by mschuster91 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @11:36AM (#33109610)
> Law of rent gives a theoretical explanation of this, but we can see this empirically too: rents go up in cities after tech companies with high salaries start opening up offices there, not before.

I think it's actually both - when tech companies enter a new town, they tend to hire boatloads of people, placing pressure on local housing markets, and thus raising prices - and landlords or people willing to sell and relocate to take a quick and easy profit know that the new class of people has substantial money to pay.

What I was referring to was stuff like [1] or [2] - investors with no real option to park "dumb money" (aka funds that are structured to invest into low-ish risk markets) have discovered that soaking up residential real estate is a good way to invest that money.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/us/corporate-real-estate-...

[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/investors-bought-third-us-ho...

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by username_my1 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:03AM (#33105314)
Meta verse could be the next big thing and the long shot facebook needs.

It just happened that out of their control 1. Apple squeezed them out of ads revenue 2. Market went to shit

I hate Facebook as a company but I don’t see them making strategic mistakes…. Everyone is getting fired everywhere

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by martin_a on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:39AM (#33105558)
> Metaverse could be the next big thing and the long shot facebook needs.

I'm skeptical. With all their money and knowledge and whatnot, they've only managed to create something that looks like a dated console party game but not more. I don't see how that's the future.

Furthermore, do they expect everyone to buy a... say... $400 headset to use the Metaverse? The low entry barrier was probably one of the biggest reasons for the success of Facebook. If you need specialized equipment nobody will use it.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by kaptainscarlet on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:50AM (#33105635)
Couldn't agree more. The headset at $400 will be a high barrier to entry. If the metaverse was built on top of the smartphone then it would get most probably pernetrate the market faster.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by username_my1 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @04:17AM (#33105831)
have you ever heard of the concept of iterations? do you remember how the first mobile phone looked like? do you remember how the first computer looked like? first laptop ? first electric car ?

that's the point of R&D and long shot, if it was possible already it's not a long shot :/

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by martin_a on Thursday October 06, 2022 @04:38AM (#33105971)
It's 2022 and we have powerful 3D engines for computer games since years. No need for FB to reinvent the Wii look if ask me.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by mFixman on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:18AM (#33106218)
The headset is the reason why they are doing this in the first place. Nobody expected people to buy a $300 iPhone in 2007 or a $500 iPad in 2011, but when they did they gave Apple money-printing machine that can also bankrupt competitors.

Meta just needs a killer feature for the Metaverse. During the pandemic they bet hard on office-by-VR, but they moved too slowly missed the pandemic and many other deadlines before making a good product.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by martin_a on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:46AM (#33106998)
You're mixing things up.

Nobody bought an iPhone or iPad because of Facebook. You could also install the Facebook app on that, but you could also use your notebook or your desktop pc or your cheap Android phone or whatnot to use Facebook. Most people already had some "Facebook ready" device at home.

Nobody will buy an Oculus headset if its main/sole use is the Metaverse.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by mFixman on Thursday October 06, 2022 @07:51AM (#33107041)
Sure, but almost nobody uses Facebook on their PCs anymore. Most Meta's users and revenues come from smartphones, which have an ecosystem controlled by Apple or Google.

Zuck is betting that more people will use VR in the future, and if you believe that hypothesis then it makes sense to invest infinite money in making sure your company becomes the Apple of VR instead of the Nokia.

How wisely that infinite VR money is being spent is another matter.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by rvz on Thursday October 06, 2022 @05:58AM (#33106412)
Oculus is the one to watch for Meta and it why they are betting on the AR glasses, not just only VR which everyone is missing. But it's not just Meta though, it is Google (thanks to North), Apple, Microsoft, etc all going for that.

We'll come back in a few years or decades time to see who will transform the glasses into another platform, just like the watch and the phone did.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by randomsearch on Thursday October 06, 2022 @03:47AM (#33105618)
Name one new product that Facebook built from scratch (did not acquire), launched, and made a sustained success of since their original social network.

The company cannot innovate and has bet the farm on their ability to innovate.

I’ve said it before: Facebook should monetise WhatsApp via payments (real payments, not crypto) and other services. That’s something within their capability and very much within their reach. Maybe they’re seeing that as a backup when VR fails, but the longer they leave it the bigger the risk someone else takes that market.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by komaromy on Thursday October 06, 2022 @04:14AM (#33105791)
> Name one new product that Facebook built from scratch (did not acquire), launched, and made a sustained success of since their original social network.

Marketplace?

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by randomsearch on Sunday October 09, 2022 @04:27AM (#33139104)
Yeah maybe I should have said “ideated and created from scratch” as directly cloning other products or features is something they’ve done a lot.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:10AM (#33106481)
Yeah agreed on payments. I kept asking this question when I was there in 2013. They had payments licenses everywhere and just fluffed it completely in a quixotic attempt to put ads in messenger.

Like, from a margin perspective I get why they didn't want to do this, but it would have been a fantastic hedge against what happened with Apple and would probably have prevented Shopify from ever scaling.

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by mupuff1234 on Thursday October 06, 2022 @04:23AM (#33105872)
So according to that logic the metaverse could succeed since it started from an acquisition (oculus), no?
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by randomsearch on Thursday October 06, 2022 @08:48AM (#33107562)
hardware, to an extent - but not fully developed

software - nope, it's all new, they can't do it

Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by matwood on Thursday October 06, 2022 @06:29AM (#33106579)
The strategic mistake with the metaverse was the size of the investment, and going all in while appearing to ignore the rest of the business.
Re:Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees by systemvoltage on Thursday October 06, 2022 @02:57AM (#33105270)
Where does the budget for failed projects go? Server hardware? Think not. They go into paying exorbitant salaries (engineering and marketing).