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Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by sharikous on Monday October 03, 2022 @07:55AM (#33066189)
Nice! System programming languages are having a revival.

I wonder if big companies will eventually rewrite their systems in those new languages. Will I live to see a Rust XNU/Linux/NT kernel?

What's certain is that the periphery is already being reworked - kernel modules in Rust, the shift to Swift, etc... Exciting times

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by pjmlp on Monday October 03, 2022 @08:59AM (#33066850)
Biggest mistake on Java and .NET languages was not having AOT compilation in the box like Delphi and VB 6 (to use common mainstream examples).

Had that been the case and probably we would never had the phase of JIT everywhere, followed by doing websites in scripting languages, to come full circle back to AOT compilation and first tier support for systems programing.

In any case, yes definitely exciting times.

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by bitexploder on Monday October 03, 2022 @09:03AM (#33066904)
We were all collectively drunk on Moore’s law.
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by jeroenhd on Monday October 03, 2022 @11:02AM (#33068456)
Websites have head AOT-compiled components for ages, but ActiveX was an even bigger mistake than Javascript :)
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by pjmlp on Monday October 03, 2022 @11:30AM (#33068911)
That isn't what I was talking about.

Regarding ActiveX, ever heard of this thing called WebAssembly?

"USENIX Security '20 - Everything Old is New Again: Binary Security of WebAssembly"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glL__xjviro

"USENIX Security '21 - Swivel: Hardening WebAssembly against Spectre"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLAHmnIkg24

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by blep_ on Monday October 03, 2022 @01:28PM (#33070773)
WebAssembly is "AOT compiled" in the same sense that code for the JVM/CLR is "AOT compiled".
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by pjmlp on Monday October 03, 2022 @02:38PM (#33071811)
Read, my, comment, before, replying.

> That isn't what I was talking about.

A, few, more, comments, upwards.

> Biggest mistake on Java and .NET languages was not having AOT compilation in the box like Delphi and VB 6 (to use common mainstream examples).

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by blep_ on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:45AM (#33079037)
I am thoroughly confused, because I did read your comments, apparently somehow differently than you read them.

You wrote:

> Had that been the case and probably we would never had the phase of JIT everywhere, followed by doing websites in scripting languages, to come full circle back to AOT compilation and first tier support for systems programing.

And then:

> Regarding ActiveX [the previous AOT compiled web thing], ever heard of this thing called WebAssembly?

You seem to be saying that WebAssembly is an AOT compilation thing that we're coming full circle to, and we're telling you it's not.

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by pjmlp on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @07:50AM (#33079073)
I was replying to the dude that mentioned ActiveX and Web development, even though my ORIGINAL comment made no reference to it, hence why I started my reply with "That isn't what I was talking about.", clear enough?
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by yjftsjthsd-h on Monday October 03, 2022 @09:49AM (#33067465)
> I wonder if big companies will eventually rewrite their systems in those new languages. Will I live to see a Rust XNU/Linux/NT kernel?

I would be astonished to see any full rewrites; we're talking about things with millions of lines of code and decades of effort behind them. I could totally see incremental rewrites that start with a little Rust (or whatever) starting in one area and then eventually spreading one subsystem at a time (see: Linux offering the ability to write device drivers in Rust).

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by rvdca on Monday October 03, 2022 @11:36AM (#33069011)
From what I understand of their product, Oxide computers (https://oxide.computer) is exactly doing this : building a server from the bottom up (OS, drivers and everything on top) in Rust. Anyone with more information can correct if I am wrong about their tech stack.
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by steveklabnik on Monday October 03, 2022 @12:15PM (#33069567)
We are building those things, but to be clear about it, users workloads will run in VMs where users will have installed all the usual operating systems, we’re not like, reimplementing those or anything. We’re also using illumos. Servers have a lot going on!
Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by rvdca on Monday October 03, 2022 @12:32PM (#33069831)
Please excuse me for misrepresenting your work then Steve!

I take this opportunity to thank you for your involvement in the Rust project!

Re:Penguincrab: Unsafe Wrapper for Linux Kernel Library in Rust by steveklabnik on Monday October 03, 2022 @01:05PM (#33070403)
It’s not a misrepresentation, just not the full story. No worries. And you’re welcome!