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Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by sirsinsalot on Friday September 30, 2022 @10:29AM (#33035335)
Would you say the same about a 6k hour investment coding a game?

This "if it isn't productive it isn't worthwhile" attitude is toxic.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by Retric on Friday September 30, 2022 @10:38AM (#33035484)
Sometimes yes. Side projects can be toxic if they leave little time for anything outside of them and work.

The old idea that “nobody on their deathbed wished they spent more time at work” can easily apply to your side hustle.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by mikkergp on Friday September 30, 2022 @11:47AM (#33036464)
Your deathbed mindset is a pretty short time to have to endure to optimize your entire life around. Especially compared to the hundred or so years you have to live through.
Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by Retric on Friday September 30, 2022 @02:56PM (#33039115)
Some people do spend 20+ years effectively on their death bed with little to comfort them but their regrets. Another way of looking at life is at 80 you can be of a sound mind but your body is only so healthy at that point. Yet a tiny fraction of people live another 40 years.

I personally don’t think it’s worth heavily optimizing for those potential last 40 years. But, they should be part of long term planning at least as something that might happen.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by haswell on Friday September 30, 2022 @12:16PM (#33036849)
The length of time enduring these thoughts/feelings is not the point.

The point is that of the ways one chooses to spend those hundred or so years, people often find later in life that they wish they'd spent the time differently. They realize that they could have achieved much greater life satisfaction if they had.

I don't believe in a literal hell, but someone once posited (sorry, cannot recall who at the moment) that hell is the "eternity" of thought that occurs as your consciousness fades away. Those thoughts you're thinking are the last thoughts you'll ever think. People don't want their last thoughts to be filled with regret. People want to die in peace.

But the broader point isn't top optimize your life around the time you'll eventually spend on your deathbed - that's just where everyone ends up. The point is to optimize your life so that you are satisfied with life - something that is not limited to your dying hours.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by mikkergp on Friday September 30, 2022 @12:41PM (#33037142)
Yeah, I get the point, but I stand behind what I said. I probably just worded it the way I did because it's click-baity. :-)

Thinking about your deathbed is really just another way of living in the future instead of the present. On your deathbed you have a completely different set of priorities and abilities, and there's no risk to the fantasy. Because you don't have to actually live it.

I definitely don't disagree within where you ended up. "The point is to optimize your life so that you are satisfied with life - something that is not limited to your dying hours." But I think this idea of reflecting back on an idealized life can be too heavily biased to be useful for some people (me maybe?) I think there's this notion of a sort of toxic ambition, which would be similar to the buddhist notion of living in the future. Seeing a lot of really high functioning artists, I think most reach the point where they realize it's not about the accomplishments, it's about taking enjoyment from the day to day practice of their craft.

But I played video games for most of my youth, and certainly I reflect back and think, maybe if I'd focused harder on school, and gone to a better university, I'd be in a better place now. Probably. But that's not who I was. Shit it's still not who I am. I reflect back fondly, but I just don't enjoy them anymore.

And that's sort of the point. Maybe you will look back and regret your life, but that feeling of regret is such a small part of it.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by haswell on Friday September 30, 2022 @01:30PM (#33037884)
I think we're mostly on the same page, but not sure why click-baity is a feature?

> Thinking about your deathbed is really just another way of living in the future instead of the present

If you spend all of your time thinking about your deathbed, sure. But I'd argue that being cognizant of this period of time and planning ahead is not the same as living in the future any more than spending your weekdays focused on getting work and chores done so you can enjoy the weekend unencumbered is living in the future (or eating healthy foods, not smoking, getting your exercise, etc).

As with everything, there's a balance to be struck.

And for what it's worth, I'm a gamer. I still actively spend time playing games because I enjoy it, and I get to interact with some of my friends.

But I think spending a few minutes reflecting on whether or not one's habits are serving them well, and how they will feel about those habits years down the road is also warranted.

> ...but that feeling of regret is such a small part of it

My point is that regret doesn't need to be part of it at all, and once you've reached that point, there's no going back. Someone may reflect on their time spent in <game of choice>, and realize it's a net positive in their life. Someone else may realize they need to make changes. The only time that such a reflection can have an impact on the outcome of one's life is when it's early enough to still matter.

The point isn't that people should stop playing games, or that they should live their life in the future, but that people should reflect on life choices early enough to make changes if changes are warranted.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by missedthecue on Friday September 30, 2022 @11:44AM (#33036429)
Why is it toxic? Throwing all your time into frivolous activity like video games is what I would say is toxic. This individual has been averaging 40 hours a week on this game since it was released.

In fact, building a valuable set of useful skills seems like the precise opposite of toxicity. Rather, it improves and adds value to your life.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by haswell on Friday September 30, 2022 @12:32PM (#33037019)
If you value health and fitness, and then spend 4-6 hours/day exercising, despite the possibility of still gaining the primary benefits of exercise without spending so much time, how is this any different?

Aside from the health benefits, fitness enthusiasts do it for the community, the feeling of accomplishment, the personal satisfaction, and in some cases, literal addiction.

Those four hours/day on a bicycle don't seem inherently more valuable than three hours on a game and one hour on a bicycle. But someone spending four hours on the bicycle will be held above the person spending three hours on a game. Why?

The two activities can be strikingly similar in some ways (aside from the fitness outcome).

- Spending time riding/playing with other cyclists/gamers (community)

- Spending time riding alone (solitude)

- A sense of personal satisfaction at certain achievements (e.g. riding a century, or unlocking a rare achievement)

But aside from the personal fitness gained, spending an three extra hours on a bike doesn't seem intrinsically any more valuable than spending those same three hours on RDR2, if they're bringing the individual a sense of satisfaction.

I do think that this is all about balance, and as others have pointed out, addictions come in many shapes and sizes. I know people who are absolutely fitness addicts.

> building a valuable set of useful skills seems like the precise opposite of toxicity

Values are personal, and usefulness is contextual. I know plenty of people who have successful careers, make good money, and then sink inordinate amounts of time into their hobbies, some of which might not look valuable depending on your perspective. For such individuals, it's unclear why they must necessarily spend time learning more skills, and why that is valuable when the bases are already covered.

Exercising seems like the opposite of toxicity, but anything can become toxic if taken to an extreme.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by smileybarry on Friday September 30, 2022 @01:06PM (#33037502)
Why is a fun activity toxic? Do you just avoid TV/movies too since they don't result in a valuable set of useful skills?

You don't have to be productive 24/7, you don't need a value justification for everything you do, and you don't need every expense (whether money or time) to result in a net positive cashflow or whatever.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by odessacubbage on Friday September 30, 2022 @12:55PM (#33037327)
most people spend their leisure time browsing mindless content on aggregators or netflix. this guy just really likes being a cowboy.

>building a valuable set of useful skills seems like the precise opposite of toxicity

eh, there's a limit. i spent past 10 years pretty much solely focused on gaining skills & career advancement and my one of my biggest regrets is not playing more vidya. i personally think work addiction is a bigger unspoken problem in society than game addiction. it certainly was for me.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by amanaplanacanal on Friday September 30, 2022 @11:59AM (#33036646)
I guess that depends on exactly what it is that you value.

I would ask: are you happy? If you are, then you are doing it right. If you aren't, then do something different.

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by cruano on Friday September 30, 2022 @10:37AM (#33035472)
If you are doing that either you are sacrificing your work, livelihood or personal relationships. It doesn't matter what for, it's an insane amount of time.

Not to mention the game in question has at most what... 100 hours of content ? it's not comparable in any way

Re:Red Dead Redemption 2 fan with 6k hours on Stadia begs fo... by djbusby on Friday September 30, 2022 @11:12AM (#33035958)
A third of a day is 8h. 6000/8 = 750 days. A year is ~365 days.