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Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by kethinov on Friday September 30, 2022 @07:43AM (#33033601)
It frustrates me that Jack seems to have genuine interest in this topic but seems to be totally averse to discussing Mastodon. It's hard to believe he's unaware of Mastodon, so we have to believe he thinks it's not the solution for some reason. But how could it not be? Why doesn't he just use his big name and significant influence to throw his weight behind Twitter's most successful open protocol competitor if he really wants this? None of it makes sense to me and I wish he would speak more plainly on the matter.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by rglullis on Friday September 30, 2022 @07:54AM (#33033678)
The problem is that he is trying to monetize the distribution of content. All his talk about decentralization is pointless, because he wants a system where there are gatekeepers, the only difference from Twitter (or Facebook/Google) is that in his view these gatekeepers should be baked into the protocol. It would be comical if it wasn't diabolical.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by PontifexMinimus on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:33AM (#33034006)
> he wants a system where there are gatekeepers

Does he? He says "it can't have an advertising model" and that it shouldn't be centralised.

> in his view these gatekeepers should be baked into the protocol

I don't see how that could in practise be done, and my reading is that Dorsey either doesn't want it or doesn't think it's possible (or both).

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by loceng on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:49AM (#33034144)
In practice you rally all of the Bitcoin HODLers who are "desperate" and on average have "decent" losses - and want Bitcoin to become popular again, and ideally for them, become mainstream.

This then incentivizes them to use only platforms and services that are integrated with Bitcoin (et al), in order to try to continue the charade that Bitcoin overall provides a net benefit, in hopes that its price, based on demand, reaches at least what they paid for it to begin with - but "hopefully 10x more!" However, it's described in part as Ponzi scheme as someone is always left holding the bag, and it will be the present moment wave who are most heavily holding the bag, who will then be more willing to rally and be a coercive group; it's like religion, or a cult, that you buy into - but where you not only have a profit motive, you're motivated to make back your losses too.

The problem is they've never actually been able to compete with non-Bitcoin platforms and services - and perhaps at its foundation due to the higher cost of using Bitcoin vs. just using the internet with encryption and other security protocol; let alone story after story showing the $ billions stolen in Bitcoin; from the beginning in Bitcoin-related startup pitch decks - you'd never see a price comparison slide for Bitcoin vs. current offerings.

This "army of HODLers" is however a potentially dangerous situation, as these are real people with voting power in democracies - and as I referenced above there was fairly early on an effort to "educate" politicians: how much the broader society be manipulated into adopting Bitcoin, simply through nudging of making it more normalized, all so the current HODLers can profit and pass the bag onto the next unsuspecting, misled laypeople? It only takes a single person with $ billions to $10s of billions to gain if this scheme continues, and who may already have $ billions of cash to spend say 50% of trying to manipulate to move it along strategically.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by loceng on Saturday October 01, 2022 @10:10AM (#33046675)
Re-reading this: a Freudian slip perhaps, I meant to say cohesive group - not coercive.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by rglullis on Friday September 30, 2022 @10:05AM (#33034976)
> He says "it can't have an advertising model" and that it shouldn't be centralised.

That does not contradict the idea that you can have gatekeepers: just make it so that the your "decentralized platform" requires payment for distribution of content and/or that it is not subject to any equivalent to "Common Carrier" rules. Sure, in theory everyone would be playing by the same rules, but in practice you'll be turning one single gatekeeper (Twitter) into many (Big Corporations, VCs, media companies, already established influencers), and everyone would presumably be paying a cut to whoever is running the distribution platform.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by loceng on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:36AM (#33034029)
Sunk-cost fallacy with his indoctrination and vested interest in Bitcoin.

Jack, Twitter, having been invested in early by Union Square Ventures, Fred Wilson et al, who also invested in Coinbase, CryptoKitties, Brave Browser, etc; USV believed they need to, or saw an opportunity to, basically create the whole ecosystem infrastructure for facilitating selling shovels during the "coin" rush.

Many years ago before Fred (at AVC.com) removed the Disqus commenting system - USV sold it off, so clearly Fred no longer had a financial reason to keep utilizing it - I would near daily engage in long-form conversation in the comment section with other experienced individuals of various domains and have engaging and mostly intellectual conversation.

Fred had valued that community, stated so many times and that it was invaluable to meeting many of the entrepreneurs he'd end up investing in - and where he regularly engage with comments. As soon as however he/they/USV started drinking the Bitcoin (Ponzi-MLM-like scheme) then there were people with the countering narrative, highly intelligent regular comments, narratives that all Bitcoin fanatics would have to ignore, avoid, dismiss in order to not shatter their ungrounded, uncriticially analyzed beliefs. Around that time Fred started getting eloquently articulated backlash, he heavily stopped engaging with the comments - and obviously avoided those critical and pointing out flaws, pitfalls, or ignored realities of the narrative they were following and propagating; and helping evolve, not to mention funding a lobbyist organization to "educate" politicians about Bitcoin and crypto-"currencies."

The SEC should have immediately attempted to put a hard stop to them - albeit a challenge with its decentralized nature, but they could have limited the layperson from losing $100,000s; I personally know a few relatively unsophisticated and unknowledgeable, gambling type people who lost large sums - and many who lost a few thousand; most I predict don't announce their losses publicly. Rather the SEC seems in bed with the VC-finance industrial complex, and it seems like their friends must have been set to make money not transaction fees - but also they likely were bought into the earlier or lower part of the Ponzi-MLM scheme, and so then they, as a decentralized "community" of "HODLers" could benefit and participate in essentially pump and dumps; at least "HODL" is the mantra, those making and not losing money of course weren't holding - they were selling, but depended in part on the manipulating the community to hold off from selling - so then they themselves could sell higher - but primarily for the price to artificially get higher and higher.

One young fellow I met ~7 years ago in the valley, having entered Bitcoin early, already had returns of over $40 million - to which he bought real estate with. He then used the rent money to continue buying Bitcoin during the troughs - as many people likely did - helping drive the relatively artificial-baseless price back up, making it continue to appear like there was higher demand than in reality. Rinse and repeat - sell high, buy low; transferring wealth weighted from the late adopters to the early adopters - the later adopters being left holding the bag of various weights depending on exactly when they "invested" in the scheme.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by pfarrell on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:02AM (#33033734)
He may not be clear of Twitter enough to do something like this. I’m wondering if a public action like that coukd open him up to some legal jeopardy. Just a guess.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by kevinmchugh on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:23AM (#33033915)
Yeah, seeing these texts where a board member discussed starting a competitor certainly raised my eyebrows
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by sneak on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:56AM (#33034221)
He also plainly stated that the thing he wants to start is a protocol, not a company, so it is hard to class it as “a competitor” in the traditional sense.

Does gmail compete with smtp?

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by CharlesW on Friday September 30, 2022 @09:33AM (#33034619)
> He also plainly stated that the thing he wants to start is a protocol…

Yes, but not that one. He wants a protocol he can monetize using various forms of Web3 grifts.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by sneak on Friday September 30, 2022 @10:45AM (#33035588)
Your anti-cryptocurrency bias is blinding you to the fact that neither party to these conversations needs or wants any more money than they have presently.

When you're a multibillionaire and you're still building new shit from scratch, you build to build. Monetary gains are a side effect.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by neilalexander on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:18AM (#33033868)
Bluesky performed a months-long discovery exercise of existing solutions and Mastodon was amongst them.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by jacooper on Friday September 30, 2022 @11:06AM (#33035879)
He said earlier that he wants to do it differently.

Which I totally understand, Activity pub is an absolute failure when it comes to user discovery especially when a user is using his/her own server, which is the whole point of the entire protocol.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by rglullis on Saturday October 01, 2022 @07:56AM (#33045929)
> Activity pub is an absolute failure when it comes to user discovery

Yeah, finding out people who I want to exchange messages with is also impossible with IMAP, XMPP...

"User discovery" is not part of the protocol. It's part of the application.

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by stiltzkin on Friday September 30, 2022 @02:52PM (#33039053)
Does Mastodon have measures vs bots and spam?, I think that's one of the issues they want to face for an alternative to Twitter.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by rglullis on Saturday October 01, 2022 @08:03AM (#33045962)
Yes, it does. Mastodon heavily emphasizes its moderation features. Pleroma has some moderation controls but does something even more powerful with its MRF [0].

Lastly, if you want to have crypto/web3 to monetize the content distribution, there is Mitra [1], which is an AP-server being developed by ONE person and in less than a year has delivered more than the whole vapoware from Bluesky team has done since Jack announced it.

[0]: https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/configuration/mr...

[1]: https://mitra.social

Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by stiltzkin on Saturday October 01, 2022 @05:20PM (#33050215)
Really interesting about Mitra!.
Re:Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022 by detaro on Friday September 30, 2022 @08:06AM (#33033764)
At least the Blue Sky stuff he pushed has been very clearly on a crypto/web3 focus.