https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/4/9/18273894...

Can’t take the lizard brain out of the human behind several tons of metal, so put in firm infra guardrails (literally) to mitigate harm.

Streets that are cyclist-friendly are also pedestrian-friendly.

But they have more speed and more weight too, and their greater distance doesn't compensate, so if you look at who kills you with their carelessness, the answer is plain: Motorists.

Cyclists are careless and give you a bruise or a fractured wrist.

Few agree, but as a bicyclist I much greater enjoyed being a part of traffic than assigned to a small narrow detached lane that has to at evey junction re-assess speedy mortal death threats abundant. Having freedom of the road & being part of the stream of traffic felt way better to me than being cordoned to a 2 ft wide lane that still regularly crosses the irresponsible/reckless/jerkwad zone. Having one multi-speed lane of traffic feels less complex to me, easier & safer than having a lot of different paces, different decoupled lanes: dealing with one another & sharing the space felt simpler easier & better, evemngiven how broadly ignorant rude & useless drivers were with their death metal machines versus bikes. But my city is pretty advantageous naturally towards bikes; cars just dont matter, are always slow, always encumbered, & bicyclists co-relationship is much better, much less limited & obviously more free, just mnturally.

The bicyclists co-relational advantage is basically ignored & unappreciated. The scariness of drivers is overwhelming. They behave horribly & are constant terrible mortal threat. So we each need separate lanes. Even though they are very limiting & scary, create totally different systems of people not recognizing & seeing each other that are so horrible, but limited to intersections & crossings, versus a pattern of coexistence. As a bicyclist, I preffered coexistence, but drivers are absurs insane disrespectful manslaugtering easily triggered monsters with little perception or awareness & worse behavior.

So! Separate lanes it is. I liked where we were better; I'd risk it. But I get why separate lanes is the shitry pathetic place we have to be to make this all reasonable. To defend against abundantly terrible & killing drivers.

If we just respected each other, it's easy to share.

And I say this as someone who rides both, about equally.

I think the things to break it will be a) better mass transit options b) more WFH and c) cheaper e-bikes so longer commutes/grocery trips can be done without a car.

I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985.

I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back.

Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)

I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster.

/me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong

and/or have terrible bicyles.

That's 40 to 45 kph.

https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (say 50-60 miles): 20-24 mph" (for "'mixed' terrain (ie rolling hills about 30% of the time, and pretty flat the rest of the time").

That's 32 to 39 kph.

Have you considered that Lance Armstrong might not be a good baseline for the median bike rider on the streets?

So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why? Because I couldn't afford expensive bicycles, had no cars following me with spares, which in turn required maximum attention of my driving, and lastly I did not dope ;-> Oh, and running marathons instead if temporary lack of funds required waiting until I could repair my bicycle, because there was always something to fix/exchange, at least the way I've driven. Which came up to 300km a day, not every day, but often. Which in turn I didn't even notice, because I just didn't care about trip distance, instead being fixated on pushing the needle of the tachometer to the right as often and as long as possible :-) My neighbour noticed instead, and couldn't believe it. This went on for years, at least during school times, then went down a little because of real life constraints like work, time, etc.

So TDF and the likes just made me think: So what?

But still 100km is nothing special at all, and 50km are nothing. 160km I do notice, but hey, 3-speed from 1985, who cares? :-) Oh, and I drive during all weather, even on ice, but that is rare.

I am neither some hulk, nor some doped bicyling celebrity. Just fit, born in 1969, 181cm tall, and usually weighing somewhere between 81 to 85kg(83 atm).

Oh, and this 3-speed bicycle from about 1985 I'm speaking of I bought used for 150€ in 2005, which the shop keeper has shown me, after I've been unsatisfied with the 100eds of trash bikes on display, asking for something 'usable' and 'normal' instead. They just aren't built like that anymore!

(Frame of Randonneur, 27"x1 1/4 wheels, classic handlebar, Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub with coaster/back pedal brake, feeble front wheel brake, mudcatchers, siderolling front dynamo, lights, porter/carrier with wirebasket fixed to it with cable ties, heavy saddle with steel springs, 12.5kg! Has been sold as "Deutschlandrad" by Kalkhoff at the time)

edit: Ring, Ring!

Your humblebrag about your lived experience DOES NOT MEAN that choeger's "about 30km/h" is indeed anywhere near the right speed for the large majority of cyclists.

Even in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen where it's flat, a lot of people do daily bike commutes, and they own no car.

That depends on ones point of view I guess. Besides that I don't want to add. I'd favour substracting cars, because they are like the plague, a nuisance, and loud if going fast enough, no matter if ICE or BEV.

Furthermore I'm thinking of anybody thinking of 30kph as absurdly fast for a city bike as an outlier, even if they are the majority.

That is not my world, LOL :-)