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Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by puffoflogic on Thursday September 22, 2022 @11:56AM (#32940740)
This is exactly what people said about covid. You completely missed the point.
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by banannaise on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:04PM (#32940886)
There's a very large difference in that COVID science was weeks to months old and extremely urgent, which caused a lot of wacky behaviors due to organizations panicking.

Climate science has been churning for decades. Would disagreeing conclusions be laughed off at first? Sure, probably. When most disagreement has been junk science by quacks, it's natural to reflexively make that assumption of new disagreement. But there's ample time and space for new studies to be analyzed, expanded on, replicated.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by tomp on Thursday September 22, 2022 @01:23PM (#32941941)
But as COVID science got clearer, the spreaders of fake news (“vaccines prevent virus” “masks work” “kids are endangered”) didn’t bear any responsibility nor suffer any consequences.

Same as with climate science. When predictions turn wrong (glaciers still existing in 2020, Great Barrier Reef recovering) everyone just moves on to new fear-mongering.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by chrisan on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:18PM (#32942656)
What kind of consequences do you want those people to suffer?

Surely you aren't going to argue the the vaccines did more harm than good?

Or that wearing a mask caused someone personal harm?

Or that trying to keep kids safe was a bad idea? My wife personally took care of many sick covid kids. They had all kinds of weird ailments no one was used to pre-pandemic.

Not sure why you are citing glaciers still existing as something to stand on, they are clearly and measurably disappearing.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by tomp on Thursday September 22, 2022 @03:20PM (#32943451)
At the very least they should lose their jobs/positions, never again be in position of power or consequential decision making, and the institutions that promoted them, should internally review their policies so the lies don’t happen again.
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by OrvalWintermute on Thursday September 22, 2022 @03:08PM (#32943293)
I was shocked, as was my Doctor wife, that the government appeared to deliberately withhold firstline treatment options, and non-vaccine therapeutics

Her response, "What is the standard of care for Covid patients first presenting?"

There were none for years, the Govt conspired with BigTech to characterize doctors like Zelenko (RIP) and McCullough as loony quacks when they came up with their own protocols for treatment.

Yet, later on the govt did come out with protocols that strangely, mimicked Zelenko & McCullough's material.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by puffoflogic on Thursday September 22, 2022 @03:17PM (#32943415)
> Yet, later on the govt did come out with protocols that strangely, mimicked Zelenko & McCullough's material.

No no no this is disinformation! A protocol which includes *checks notes* Pfizermectin is totally different than a protocol which includes ivermectin. You can't compare the two!

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by nradov on Thursday September 22, 2022 @07:37PM (#32946044)
There haven't been any high-quality studies (consistent with evidence-based medicine criteria) which show ivermectin to be clinically effective as an early COVID-19 treatment. If you know of such a study then could you please provide a citation?

If by "Pfizermectin" you are referring to Paxlovid, that is not accurate. There are significant biochemical and pharmacokinetic differences between the molecules.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/12/02/how-does-pfizers-paxlov...

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by OrvalWintermute on Thursday September 22, 2022 @10:51PM (#32947456)
on Ivermectin the evidence is over the place. Many of the foreign studies definitely show benefit. Many of the other studies don't. It is a real trainwreck. Consequently, I think it is safe to say that this is up in the air.

However, the McCullough protocol [1], and the closely related Zelenko protocols were not only about Ivermectin, HCQ, or Zinc, but instead cocktails of drugs with proven efficacy, and an overall approach to treatment prior to hospitalization.

Referencing the late 2020 publication:

Sanitization

Masks

hand washing / hand sanitizer Fresh air / Air circulation Negative pressure air isolation

Supplements:

Zinc with hydroxychloroquine Vitamin D & Vitamin C

Antivirals / Antibiotics

Quercetin Favipiravir Azithromycin Doxycycline

Mono-Clonal antibodies

bamlanivimab (MAB) casirivimab and imdevimab (MABs)

Anti-Inflammatory Colchicine

Corticosteroids

budesonide dexamethasone

Antiplatelet agents and antithrombotics

aspirin heparin Orals - pixaban, rivaroxaban, edoxaban, dabigatran

[1] https://www.imrpress.com/journal/RCM/21/4/10.31083/j.rcm.202...

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by nradov on Thursday September 22, 2022 @11:53PM (#32947845)
If the evidence for ivermectin is really "all over the place" then could you please provide a citation? I'm only asking for a single high-quality RCT. Any one will do. The single link you provided is not that.
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by OrvalWintermute on Friday September 23, 2022 @02:19AM (#32948652)
https://ivmmeta.com/

This is why I say it is all over the place.

Also, RCTs have significant challenges in them

https://academic.oup.com/ejo/article/37/5/457/2599978

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by naasking on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:02PM (#32940848)
> This is exactly what people said about covid. You completely missed the point.

But such evidence didn't exist for COVID. Effectiveness of lockdowns and mask mandates is still hotly contested, for instance.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by spookthesunset on Thursday September 22, 2022 @01:13PM (#32941810)
> Effectiveness of lockdowns and mask mandates is still hotly contested, for instance

The fact their effectiveness is still being questioned suggests that we never should have done them in the first place. You don't get to make broad, highly disruptive mandates with almost zero evidence they would even work.

For the mandates to actually be worth it, you should be able to show the data to any reasonable person and they'd immediately see an order of magnitude difference between test & control. The fact you can barely tell florida apart from california is pretty damning. If you need fancy math to see a difference, it wasn't worth it.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by naasking on Thursday September 22, 2022 @06:52PM (#32945648)
> The fact their effectiveness is still being questioned suggests that we never should have done them in the first place.

Not necessarily. Precautionary principle and all when we didn't know much. Mask mandates aren't that disruptive. Lockdowns obviously more disruptive, and definitely justified at the very beginning when we didn't know anything.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by spookthesunset on Thursday September 22, 2022 @07:37PM (#32946045)
The era of the precautionary principle ended the day all the field hospitals closed virtually unused. That should have been the complete end of all mandates. Covid clearly wasn’t as bad as what all these “experts” computer models suggested so there was no reason to continue acting out of such great caution.

Instead governors doubled down. That was the end of “science and data” and the beginning of 2.5 years of stupidity.

[dead]
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by naasking on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:43PM (#32941396)
In principle, HCQ can be effective against some coronaviruses and not others. Ditto for masks. So I'm not convinced we knew anything specific about COVID-19 just due to prior research, but the precautionary principle suggests being overly conservative in most assumptions.

Fauci actually did mislead the public about masks, but he actually believed they were effective, so he lied to the public claiming their ineffectiveness at first due to fears of shortages.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by TurkishPoptart on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:17PM (#32941050)
I was always onboard with the climate change agenda until 2020. Now I understand that this is "political science" (the application of "science" as interpreted by people in power) as opposed to pure "science". See the current Dutch farmer protests and those in Sri Lanka, and soon to come in Canada.