News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by UncleMeat on Thursday September 22, 2022 @11:50AM (#32940645)
> What if a scientist finds real evidence that goes against the zeitgeist

They'd be a fucking hero. I know a few atmospheric science faculty. They are hyper distraught at the data. They'd love nothing more than to find out that actually we are going to be fine. Being able to keep burning coal for centuries would be a huge boon for reducing poverty worldwide. It'd be amazing. This hypothetical researcher would have among the most positive influences on human prosperity of any human to ever live.

Journals select for novel results that upend prior work. Strong analysis that demonstrated that the existing research is wrong would be front page cover of Science or Nature shit.

By declaring that there is a cabal that will silence quality research it allows people to dismiss the entire professional community without actually doing any work whatsoever.

> The litmus test is this: It would be remarkably easy to publish fake climate science if a scientist want to, say due to ideological reasons, since we've completely silenced the criticism machinery in this area.

What do you mean by fake? Could you throw together a bunch of fake numbers that match existing expectations and get that published? Sure, so long as it didn't get rejected for lack of novelty. But this is true for everything. I could read that falling objects accelerate at 9.8m/s2 in a book and decide to make up some observations that match this and submit that to a journal. This doesn't demonstrate that gravity is hokey. It just demonstrates that paper reviewers aren't especially well equipped to identify fraudulent observations.

Also, the number of grad students working their ass off trying to get their research published and getting their work rejected demonstrates pretty clearly that it is not "remarkably easy" to publish whatever you want as long as it aligns with the existing best thinking.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by TurkishPoptart on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:20PM (#32941085)
Have you heard about Ignaz Semmelweis? He went against the medical establishment to demonstrate that surgeons hand-washing between operation is a disease prevention system.

tl;dr he died alone and poor in an insane asylum for being a science "heretic". Same freaking story as all the doctors who were silenced during this "pandemic". [1]

>Despite various publications of results where hand-washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis's observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. He could offer no theoretical explanation for his findings of reduced mortality due to hand-washing, and some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and mocked him for it. In 1865, the increasingly outspoken Semmelweis allegedly suffered a nervous breakdown and was committed to an asylum by his colleagues. In the asylum he was beaten by the guards. He died 14 days later from a gangrenous wound on his right hand that may have been caused by the beating. His findings earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory, giving Semmelweis' observations a theoretical explanation, and Joseph Lister, acting on Pasteur's research, practised and operated using hygienic methods, with great success.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by UncleMeat on Thursday September 22, 2022 @12:25PM (#32941180)
Yes. Everybody has heard of this story. It comes from a time when the way that scientific research was identified, shared, and evaluated was entirely different both at a structural and individual level. It is also famous as shit in part because the story is so dramatic and unusual. I do not believe that it is in any way indicative that revolutionary research which demonstrated that CO2 emissions can be massively increased without generating meaningful planet-scale warming would be made inaccessible.

ExxonMobil would be shouting it from the tops of the hills at every second of every day. The GOP would hold nonstop hearings for these researchers to present their work over and over and over. And I'm telling you that existing atmospheric science faculty would weep with joy over this news.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by systemvoltage on Thursday September 22, 2022 @11:56AM (#32940736)
I don't think they'd be a fucking hero. They'd be hung by the media, strangled by the academic peers and rejected by the society.

Most science works fine, this is one area where it is quite deranged.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by UncleMeat on Thursday September 22, 2022 @01:08PM (#32941739)
Who have you spoken to who is deranged?
Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by StanislavPetrov on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:15PM (#32942625)
>I don't think they'd be a fucking hero. They'd be hung by the media, strangled by the academic peers and rejected by the society.

I agree completely.

>Most science works fine, this is one area where it is quite deranged.

I disagree completely. The old saying, "science advances one funeral at a time" is still as true today as when it was coined.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by pstuart on Thursday September 22, 2022 @01:57PM (#32942406)
If what climate scientists are saying is true, then there's every reason to be deranged about it.

The bonus is that there's so many other wins from transitioning away from fossil fuels.

Re:Censorship by big tech at the behest of the U.S. government? by StanislavPetrov on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:13PM (#32942589)
>Also, the number of grad students working their ass off trying to get their research published and getting their work rejected demonstrates pretty clearly that it is not "remarkably easy" to publish whatever you want as long as it aligns with the existing best thinking.

While it isn't "remarkably easy" to publish what you want, even when it aligns with the establishment position, it is always infinitely harder to get what you want published when it conflicts with the establishment position (when it comes to "mainstream" publications).