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Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by treis on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:37PM (#32928498)
>Very clear the market has now negatively reacted to high operating expenses that largely stem from excessive headcount.

Reducing staff by ~10% or whatever after doubling it in the last couple years isn't exactly a strong signal of anything.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by tempsy on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:41PM (#32928548)
I’m speaking more to the stock price than Meta’s actions. Shares trading lower than they were 5 years ago. And many of the unprofitable growth companies down 80-90% in less than a year.

Point is tech companies are highly sensitive to interest rates and now have to course correct in a world where the market is punishing excessive spending.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by nappy-doo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:14PM (#32930032)
Not really. Meta raised 10B (really their first debt ever) in April 2022, and GOOG has like 14B in debt. Google could pay that with less than a quarter's worth of earnings, and I think Meta's not far behind.

IMO, the market is overreacting. Both companies look pretty cheap to me.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by nluken on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @04:10PM (#32930865)
Markets are forward looking. FB's growth numbers don't look great, and if you don't buy into their bet on the Metaverse you might be less inclined to see a bright future for that company.
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by edmundsauto on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:17PM (#32931645)
Markets are forward looking, but people making the decisions are plagued by recency bias and fighting the last battle. No comment on the relative contribution of different incentives, but being "forward looking" doesn't mean "correct" and it can also include an overreaction based on recent data points.
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by acchow on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:11PM (#32931576)
If FB revenue stops growing, markets are going to keep punishing it. A PER of 11 won’t feel cheap with 0% growth
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by dafty4 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:43PM (#32928579)
The stock price dive at Meta is pretty clearly due to the $10B hit from Apple’s Do Not Track Feature.

Meta should make a free Android phone that allows tracking.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by tempsy on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:47PM (#32928610)
Nasdaq is down 30%. Clearly macro factors like rates and inflation and recessionary pressures are putting pressure on rate sensitive companies generally speaking. You can’t just say it’s ad tracking when dozens of mid and large cap tech stocks are down 30-80% ytd
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by paganel on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:05PM (#32928871)
> Clearly macro factors like rates and inflation

To quote from the latest Economist [1]:

> This logic has broader implications than most investors realise. Now imagine you will receive $100 a year, for ever. By the reasoning above, this has a finite present value, since compound interest means payments in the distant future are almost worthless. With interest rates at 1%, the payment stream is worth $10,000; at 5%, it is worth $2,000. But as well as reducing the value, the higher rate also changes the distribution of that value. With rates at 1%, less than a tenth of the stream’s value comes from payments made in the first ten years. At 5%, around two-fifths does.

and

> In other words, higher interest rates dramatically alter firms’ incentives when choosing which timeline to invest over. Sacrificing short-term profits for longer-term gains is one thing when you are trying to persuade investors that your superapp, machine-learning algorithm or gene-sequencing widget has the potential to up-end an industry. It is another when even the best-case scenario has its value so heavily skewed towards what can be done in the next decade. Startup founders are used to shaking off derision over implausible, Utopian dreams. It is more of a kick in the teeth to realise that even Utopia is not worth much unless it can be achieved in short order.

Sorry for the long quotes, it was the best I could do, I highly recommend that article in its entirety.

[1] https://archive.ph/9GbfH

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by subsubzero on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:35PM (#32929352)
Thanks for this, its confusing for many as to why growth companies(low/no-profit) are getting hit so hard due to rising interest rates and these quotes and the article linked explain the reasoning very well.
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by robocat on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @09:30PM (#32933841)
The NPV values didn’t look weird enough, but I got the same results from: https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/net-pre... — Values used: Interest Rate = %5, Compounding = 1 times per Period, Line 0 = $0, Line 1 = 5000 periods of $100.

However, I think the economist column/article misses some important points:

1: There is a stereotype that corporations only look at the next quarter’s earnings. The article argues the opposite, that corporations are long term focused. The article needs to address that point.

2: Stocks and dividends should be inflation proof (with some assumptions, such as revenues increase with inflation).

3. The article doesn’t seem to mention bonds, even though it talks about constant $ returns. What?

The most interesting part of the article for me was “The original marshmallow test, it turned out, had a flaw. Exclude some children from better-off families (which seems to make them both more willing to delay gratification and more likely to succeed in later life) and much of its predictive power suddenly disappears.” [Slight edits]

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by Infinitesimus on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @04:11PM (#32930875)
Oh but they did! Meta leadership has always anticipated this risk. The problem is that they have not been able to fully mitigate it.

Facebook Phone (rebranded HTC) was released in 2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_First but had poor sales.

The metaverse is their next play to build a world where they are a bit more shielded from Apple/Google/Microsoft's hardware influence. Pivoting a large business is really hard.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by mistrial9 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @04:23PM (#32931021)
I appreciate when people inside FB/Meta speak directly like this (as someone who loathes the Metaverse project)
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by Infinitesimus on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:00PM (#32931456)
To clarify, I'm not affiliated with Meta. Just an internet nerd who likes following how organizations think and evolve
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by stocknoob on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:05PM (#32928865)
Do not track is an easy scapegoat, but I think the rise of TikTok is a larger factor. Meta lost users.
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by badwolf on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @02:37PM (#32929391)
I think this, along with a slew of other factors as well.

Meta pivoting to burn money on a VR universe that nobody actually seems to want. Meta burning FB users by constantly altering their FB news feed, making it less and less a place for friends, and more a place to see endless reposted memes and ads for drop-ship products and stolen IP tshirts. Meta burning Instagram users by trying to force everyone's favorite photo-sharing app to be a shittier version of TikTok, as well as the above constant feed refactors...

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:04PM (#32929876)
It's definitely the ATT changes, literally cratered all their direct response ads on iOS (i.e. rich people).

TikTok is definitely a concern but turning off the money pump is a much, much bigger one.

Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by retinaros on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @04:26PM (#32931043)
if this is tiktok they shouldnt worry for long i bet it will be banned before end of year
Re:Meta and Google are cutting staff by VirusNewbie on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:32PM (#32931790)
The article says its 50 people at Google who are affected. And they have a chance to apply to other teams.