Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We have those rules because otherwise HN would basically all flamewar all the time. And not even fresh flamewars.

I don't think it's a "flamewar tangent". The article is talking about how Amazon has trouble attracting workers because of their engineering culture and my comment is saying that's just one cause of their problem. It's Amazon's behavior that's inflammatory, not my observation of it.

You changed the topic into a general kvetch about Amazon (that's a generic tangent) using heated denunciatory rhetoric (that's a flamewar tangent). Also with pre-existing talking points (clear sign of a battle comment as opposed to a curious one).

I'm not defending Amazon, btw. Their behavior can be inflammatory and your comment can also be inflammatory. That in fact is how flamewars work.

It’s general about Amazon because the problem of attracting talent is related to the behavior of the company in general, my comment didn’t change the scope of the discussion.

A discussion about their engineering culture without discussing the larger related problems is myopic. It would be like discussing problems with the logistics of moving people to the gulags and you’re saying we shouldn’t get off the topic of transportation.

There shouldn’t be any flame “war” because everything I said is correct. I don’t think there’s any popular defense of these behaviors from Amazon, flame wars are characterized by popular opposing schools of thought.

Sorry, but I think that's a stretch. Your comment changed the scope from "specific new unit at Amazon" (the article's topic) way past even "engineering culture" to just plain "boo Amazon" - a heap of negativities with only the name in common. That is a classic generic tangent in the sense that I'm using the phrase.

Moreover, you listed them using the denunciatory political rhetoric that is most antithetical to the curious conversation we want here. No doubt BigCo deserves it, or at least you feel they do (and I'm sure you have many good points), but we're trying to optimize for one specific thing here (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...).

It sounds like you define flamewar more narrowly, which is fine—I'm talking about the kind of high-indignation-low-information internet discussion that evokes angry-reflexive responses from people instead of curious-reflective ones. Internet threads have a strong tendency to end up in that state, and it's exactly the opposite of what we're going for here (see that previous link), so we end up expending a lot of energy to try to stave it off.

People often mention "correctness" (or "truth" or "facts") to justify breaking the site guidelines, but of course there are plenty of ways to be aggressive, flamebaity, or just plain off topic* while nevertheless saying correct things. Correctness is great, but those other qualities are undesirable regardless of how correct you are or feel you are. Here are a couple recent explanations on this last point if you or anyone want more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32909407

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32697044

Lots more here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

* Not all offtopicness is bad; whimsical offtopicness is usually fine. It's the generic tangents that are bad, because they drag down discussion quality.

Unless they turn around soon, I don't see how their goose isn't cooked in the long run. The site has become too filled with garbage products, hijacked listings and fake reviews. Once the people who think they've never received a counterfeit realize there's no way they can really know and start to question why the products they get from Amazon break earlier than usual or have questionable packaging, it will be hard to undo the loss of trust.

As long as they pay top dollar for engineers, I think some folks will happily (or unhappily) work there. AWS is a behemoth and it has its tentacles in almost every piece of internet based software we use today, it’s not going anywhere unfortunately.

> As I tell their recruiters I'd rather eat a cactus than work for them.

That's not much of a statement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nopal

Cactus tacos are very tasty!

>As I tell their recruiters I'd rather eat a cactus than work for them.

lol. whats their response?

> As I tell their recruiters I'd rather eat a cactus than work for them.

wow, hardcore.

there's junk on every retail platform, but i disagree that amazon retail is all garbage. myself and peers have noticed an increase in quality of chinese import over the past 5 years. to the point that i would seriously questions buying a brand name domestic product over the chinese/asian import off amazon. i think the quality gap has been slowly closing.

I’ve stop buying name brand on Amazon (Nike, Apple products, Hanes etc) a few years ago due to poor quality assurance and potential for counterfeit — cue joke about how Nike and counterfeit Nike are made in the same sweatshop. I would happily buy counterfeit Nike but only if it’s heavily discounted. I don’t want to be tricked into buying second hand clothes, useless junk or counterfeit products. However you bring up a good point, some of products on Amazon from Asia are just fine if you’re looking for basics like T shirts and Athletic wear. But outside of that would highly suggest people buy electronics and brand name clothing elsewhere.

i guess your comment really brings up what you should be buying on amazon. tcl roku tv for example, had one for 6 years no issues until i broke it moving. household goods ive always had good luck, as well as some basic decorations/furniture. whole foods delivery, yes please. i simply dont understand where the distaste comes from besides political feelings towards the company.