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Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by tremon on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @06:43AM (#32923175)
"One reason democracy is hard is that people are very motivated to game your system. That makes being transparent about how it works a fool's errand."

That's a major fallacy you're opening with. If something is important to us (as a society), we will find ways to make it serve us well even when it's under attack. The rest of your post even makes a similar point: the social value of well-working search is greater than the economic value for even the biggest search monopolist on the planet. So why not socialize it?

Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by xani_ on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @08:16AM (#32923932)
Well, on one side we have zero examples of open engines actually working well, on other we have long nuanced history of SEO vs search engine fighting unending battle, with SEO side trying to circumvent every way the search engine is trying to stop them from poisoning the search results. And barely edging out on that.

Being idealistic about it won't change the outcome.

Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by simiones on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @08:45AM (#32924240)
Do we have any example of an open engine working badly? '

As far as I know, this hasn't really been tried, definitely not with the kinds of resources this project will have available.

Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by account42 on Thursday September 22, 2022 @10:25AM (#32939193)
Do we have any examples of search engines not run by ad companies having problems fighting SEO?
Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by rjmunro on Monday September 26, 2022 @12:27PM (#32985113)
Altavista was initially a demo of the capabilities of DEC Alpha CPUs. It was initially amazing. It got taken over by SEO rubbish, and beaten by Google who invented PageRank to get good results again.

PageRank was initially much less prone to SEO shenanigans because it relied on signals from other sites (incoming links) to decide how important a result was. Of course, as Google became more popular, people started sharing links on other pages and so on to cheat the PageRank algorithm. And Google have been caught in a fight with SEO ever since.

Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by Guidii on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @09:09AM (#32924621)
Democracy has some intentional opacity though. Consider the impact of making your personal voting choice public.

AFAIK, nobody has ever tried that because of the dangers of vote buying and coercion. Essentially, gaming the system.

(I don't think this proves anything! Simply wanted to suggest that comparing search to democracy doesn't significantly change the analysis wrt opacity.)

Re:EU Open Web Search project kicked off by quickthrower2 on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:36AM (#32935451)
I like the idea of opaque citizens and open government/search company though.