Why was an Instagram post shared instead of the blog post on patreon?

That's the choice of the person who posted the Instagram post at HN instead of the actual blog post that was posted before the Instagram post, obviously.

> Nobody looks like they are going to lose their livelihood over this

We don’t know everyone’s unique situation, even if they did go beyond what most companies do.

No. That's not the social contract for employment. It's dangerous to think it is. There's a mutual need from both parties. When that need changes, both parties are free to respond. Forcing a company to keep someone would be just as bad as forcing someone to stay.

What we also don't know is the companies financial situation. Keeping people on when they can't be afforded can be a way to make a company completely collapse. I was in two startups that would have collapsed completely, without layoffs, around the time of the last recession. This is why the "keep x months of salary" are rules you strictly follow.

There's a difference between "someone will lose their livelihood because of this" and "that's entirely the employers fault."

Recognizing the impact of an action does not mean you're entirely responsible for it.

What are you responding to, exactly? That comment was claiming that we can't know for sure that "nobody" would lose their livelihood over this. And it's true, we can't know.

I think they are responding to the assertion that the employer is obligated to keep the employee just because the employee might have absolutely nowhere else to go. Especially in the competitive tech space neither you nor your employer are obligated to maintain your employment relationship.

This is besides Patreon giving their former employees a license to goof off on their dime for 3 months. I can’t imagine anyone at Patreon being so hard up that 3 months pay and insurance to look for new work is enough to break the camels back.

> We don’t know everyone’s unique situation

Those who are hired to Patreon and similar companies arent people who would end up unemployed if they are laid off. Those people already have to turn down recruiters who try to poach them every week.

Mid-November through December is a hiring no-man's land due to the accumulation of end-of-year vacations and family trips. Most of these employees have about a month and a half before the shutdown begins and they are stuck scrambling to try to find work in the new year.

This is pure negativity and not true. Hiring might slow down because of seasonality overall, but I was hired the last two times end of year. It's a great time to get new employees ramped up when things are slower.

A polite reminder that some companies are growing really fast and are even struggling with hiring.

Just wanted to throw in my $0.02 here as well. I've been hired in November/December twice in my career without issue.

Likewise. I didn’t even know it was a slow period.

Same here. My current position was a November hire, as was my first position.

I got hired in November, for a job I held for almost 27 years.

I would think the impending collapse of the tech sector might be a bigger concern, but I think there's still plenty of time for people getting laid off right now.

January/February is the most active recruiting time though, 3 months pay is more than enough to make it there without any issues.

Most people in tech also don't live paycheck to paycheck. As an adult, your responsibility is to have an emergency fund. No career is safe.

It's not going to be this hard. They will land on their feet in weeks, maybe days. Anyone recruiting is hard plugged into layoffs.fyi and while big company recruiting takes months, we (and my other friends in startups) can turn around the whole thing in 3 days if we have to.

Not sure why you are downvoted for speaking truth. I know as a manager I rarely brought on new hires during this period if I had a choice.

Dogpiling is dogpiling. Luddites are luddites. Who am I, a person with real tech agency recruiting experience who could view the actual live job boards year after year during this period, to possibly to speak out about what actually happens when we've got people who have anecdotal experience? Every year we would reach that point and suddenly pull many jobs from the board until after the new year, but I guess it was just my imagination because someone over there got a new job in November once.

I didn't even say it was impossible. I just think it's unrealistic to expect to find something after Nov 15th and until the New Year. Sorry for knowing what I'm talking about, I guess.

Also, I think it's quaint that people assume that when labor reductions happen at tech companies, that only tech employees are affected. Somewhere there's an admin assistant who has been working at that glorified CMS, and I doubt they have the same job prospects as a software architect.

Recruiters would fill that gap readily enough.

My comment comes directly from my experience in the past as a recruiter. We saw a 60%+ downturn in the hiring market From Nov 15 - Dec 31 regardless of how the hiring market was performing in general, and then they would spring back to life after Jan 1 when everyone was back in the office. It takes more than a hiring manager to hire employees.

The slowdown comes from all the moving parts who need to be in place in order to facilitate the transition of an employee to an org.

Think of your average tech hire who needs to (a) go through orientation just like everyone else, and (b) is going to take a week or two just to get his work environment and credentialing set up so he can work with the servers. I'll put my experience on that side of the desk working with dozens of clients against any anecdotal one-offs who got hired late in the year.

You speak the truth. Any recruiter with any experience at all will tell you hiring plunges late in the 4th quarter. It's been that way forever. There does tend to be an uptick in interviewing starting late in the 3rd quarter and early on in the 4th (i.e. now) so they can get the people they need in place for the start of the new year and next year's budget. Hopefully these folks will be able to take advantage of that and if they can't start immediately at least be ready to go at the end of the holidays, and if they've been paid through the end of the year then they can at least enjoy the holidays.

A lot of business in general tends to slow down during the last few weeks of the year. It's sector-dependent, somewhat, but just things like getting approvals from or meetings with people who are 'out' for the holidays impacts even well-intentioned orgs from moving at 'regular' speed when it comes to making hires or signing business deals or what not. It's not a 'negative' viewpoint so much as 'realistic'.

This viewpoint seems very domain/market dependent. Retail usually explodes during winter months, for example.

Yes replace your likely 6-figure dev job with a $15/hr job stocking the shelves at walmart...

Walmart has 943 software engineering positions open right now.

They're making more than $15/hr: https://www.levels.fyi/companies/walmart-global-tech/salarie...

While true the parent comment was talking about Seasonal jobs that retail adds at the end of the year, these are not programming jobs that are added but cashiers, stockers, etc.

I wasn't. My point stands - people, including myself, have no trouble getting software related jobs in any season. Other markets/industries it may vary.