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Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by astrange on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:58PM (#32795570)
> It has shown that GC vs manual memory management has a third option.

Objective-C has only existed a few decades now.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by pornel on Sunday September 11, 2022 @06:09AM (#32798371)
Replies to my comment are questioning whether that was really a third or third-and-a-halfth option, but my point was that previously mainstream languages offered either memory managed by a run-time with an overhead (this includes ARC), or depended on diligence of the programmer to work correctly (Rust has copied C++ move semantics, but made moves automatic and checked).

Rust's ownership + borrowing instead of being somewhere on the axis of performance vs correctness trade-off, has traded off generality/flexibility instead (infamous for being unfit for doubly-linked lists). Unlike ARC, it works without a run-time, and on bare allocations and stack objects too. Unlike C++, it has zero-cost slices/substrings without a risk of dangling pointers.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by heinrich5991 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:03PM (#32795603)
Note: Some people consider reference counting to be a form of garbage collection.

AFAIK Objective-C has lots of reference counting.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by j-james on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:36PM (#32795784)
I'd definitely consider it a third option, "garbage collection" to me strongly implies the existence of a "garbage collecter" à la tracing collectors. Reference counting injects reference checks/increments and destructors into the program itself, which means you don't have a separate routine running independently (and nondeterministically) of the main program.

The phrase "garbage collection" has also come to be somewhat associated with tracing's specific characteristics (IMO). Manual memory management is performant and deterministic, but unsafe. Tracing garbage collection is performant and safe, but nondeterministic. Reference counting is deterministic and safe, but not as performant. If you throw Rust into the mix as a fourth option I suppose you could add a "flexible" characteristic.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by astrange on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:13PM (#32796274)
> Reference counting is deterministic and safe, but not as performant.

Not as performant in a theoretical model with unlimited memory that all costs the same to access. ie it’s not actually faster in practice when peak memory matters and swap exists.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by astrange on Saturday September 10, 2022 @09:42PM (#32796116)
It’s deterministic, doesn’t scan memory, and the program only runs the exact instructions you see in its binary instead of stopping and having some part of the runtime appear from nowhere and change things. So… it’s not garbage collection, it’s a dual to it.

Rust avoids copies and occasionally proves single ownership instead of having RCs. This seems to me to be overoptimization and a waste of programmer time. Copies are fine and you don’t need to prove them away.

Re:Zig VP of community comments on Rust by hayley-patton on Sunday September 11, 2022 @07:32PM (#32804273)
RC scans dead memory and changes things, and the GC would appear in a binary. But it is indeed a dual <https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1035292.1028982>