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Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by sorenjan on Saturday September 10, 2022 @02:10PM (#32793037)
Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest.

Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depending on if the current environment needs it, to save power when you can have the same accuracy without it.

Personally, I find the accuracy and sensitivity of modern GNSS devices amazing. I remember when you had to wait maybe 10 minutes to acquire a fix, the accuracy was poor and maybe within 10 meters, and if you covered the receiver with clothing you would lose satellite fix. Now my phone gets a good position in a few seconds, I can see which side of the road I ran on, and even with my phone in my pocket I can often get a reasonably accurate track indoors.

https://www.androidauthority.com/dual-frequency-gps-878169/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gp...

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by Nappes on Saturday September 10, 2022 @03:48PM (#32794038)
The speedup you are noticing is probably mostly due to assisted gps, where your phone gets a location using - partial gps information + wifi location + cell tower location all triangulated. Your eg early 2010 car gps unit didn't have any of the addition ways to speed up the location fix
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by extrapickles on Saturday September 10, 2022 @05:06PM (#32794584)
Downloading the orbital parameters can be done via the internet rather than at the 50 bps that the satellites broadcast them at.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by dhsysusbsjsi on Saturday September 10, 2022 @05:18PM (#32794647)
Also the challenge of old receivers was which Doppler shift frequency to listen on depending on if the target satellite is going towards or away. By knowing the rough location (from cell towers, known wifi AP’s etc), they can get an instant lock.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by KennyBlanken on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:06PM (#32795613)
There are three things that lead to fast lock times for cell phones.

* Ephemeris and almanac data updated via the internet so the receiver doesn't have to wait for either and can immediately know what satellites to listen for and acquire.

* Precise clock via NTP so the receiver has a smaller solve space for its internal clock

* AGPS gives a very good position fix to further help with the initial clock and position solving

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by pilif on Saturday September 10, 2022 @03:34PM (#32793912)
Apple has supported GNSS since the iPhone 8/X generation in 2017. This is about L5 GPS which I'm not sure how well this is supported in general ATM as its pretty new
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by reportingsjr on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:00PM (#32794132)
GNSS is a generic term for satellite based positioning systems. It looks like you're referring to the iPhone adding Galileo support in the 8/X.

L5 support has been available in a number of devices for a couple of years now. Garmin was one of the first to use L5 in commercial devices, with their Fenix watches a while back.

The phone I'm currently using, the Pixel 6 Pro uses the L5 band. It's nice and I can definitely tell a difference, but it still struggles due to antenna size.

In my experience, for people doing significant outdoor stuff like backpacking, endurance running, etc, a positioning device from a solid company like Garmin is going to be a good bit better than an apple, Samsung, Google, etc device.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by bobthepanda on Saturday September 10, 2022 @05:07PM (#32794589)
In my experience I find Apple tends not to add features that don’t meet a reliability or quality bar, which is why they’re usually not first movers on things like 4G or 5G.

I had an LG phone that was one of the first in 4G (at least on my carrier) and the thing ran so hot it was often painful to touch.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by nradov on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:13PM (#32795325)
Nope, Apple is just late to the party here. Multi-frequency GPS has been completely reliable in competing devices for at least two generations.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by martyvis on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:22PM (#32795710)
The Apple Reality Distortion Field is clearly still strong.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by skimo8 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @10:29PM (#32796340)
It’s more a statement of how they operate IMO. I’ve watched them be extremely conservative over the years to see which ideas stick and wait until hardware has matured.

My HTC thunderbolt was one of the first “4G” phones, but was barely useable more than a few hours.

Yes, Apple has made some insane design constraints in the past (butterfly keyboards, the whole thin-ness thing), but their chip choices are usually pretty sound and grounded in reality.

*edit: I wanted to throw in how frustrating the lack of push email was for so long (and still kind of is), but I get it. From their standpoint, they control APNS & can use that for energy efficiency benefits to make a grandma-friendly device

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by haditab on Sunday September 11, 2022 @01:02AM (#32796965)
I hear this claim a lot, especially by Apple brand enthusiasts, but is there really any data supporting this?

From my memory Apple is just often late to the party. Especially for 4G and LTE.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by sorenjan on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:35PM (#32795443)
Garmin only recently introduced dual-frequency GNSS in some versions of their Fenix 7 watches, and have since added it to some cheaper models like the Forerunner 255. The first watch with L1+L5 was the Coros Vertix 2 from last year, so it's still quite new in watches.

Qualcomm has had it since the Snapdragon 855 though, so basically every flagship Android phone since 2019.

https://support.garmin.com/en-IE/marine/faq/9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfd...

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by fortran77 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @05:11PM (#32794611)
I'm not sure what you're talking about. GNSS is just a generic term for a "global navigation satellite system."
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by akelly on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:12PM (#32795651)
Wow you're right, GPSTest on my 2019 Oneplus 7 shows L5 GPS satellites, in addition to L1 GPS, GLONASS, Michibiki, and dual-band Galileo.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by alephxyz on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:18PM (#32795349)
Does the Android OS and apps like Google maps actually use multiple frequencies to get a position fix? I have friends with Samsung phones supporting dual frequency gps yet the GPS accuracy doesn't seem any better than single frequency devices.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by sorenjan on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:54PM (#32795548)
It's transparent to the apps, it's included in all GPS (or technically GNSS) locations. GPSTest has a built in accuracy test mode where to can measure your phones location accuracy. Read more about that here: https://barbeau.medium.com/measuring-gnss-accuracy-on-androi...

I noticed a huge difference when I switched from my older phone to my current with dual frequency, and I usually log runs, walks, and bike rides so it's easy to compare the tracks. But maybe my old phone was just bad, my Garmin watch uses single frequency and it's usually quite good anyway. I've seen a few reviews of new Garmin watches and there dual frequency seems to make a small and not always noticeable difference.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by nradov on Saturday September 10, 2022 @09:05PM (#32795949)
They might not notice a huge difference depending on where they use location services. The real accuracy advantage of dual-frequency GPS only become apparent in degraded signal environments, such as next to tall buildings (multipath signal reflections) and under tree canopies. With a clear view of the sky, regular GPS is already quite accurate (especially if the device also supports other GNSS constellations).
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by stjohnswarts on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:06PM (#32794184)
How long ago was that? I never remember it taking more than a minute or so to get a good fix with GPS devices. I'm talking about Garmin devices.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by sorenjan on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:44PM (#32795484)
The first GPS device I used didn't have any built in maps, only a breadcrumb trail on a monochrome LCD display. It used AA batteries and it was before selective availability was turned off, so accuracy was quite poor compared to today. Late -90s, so around 25 years ago now. If I recall correctly it was a Garmin 38.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by nradov on Saturday September 10, 2022 @09:26PM (#32796042)
Garmin devices have supported downloading satellite ephemeris data from the Internet for several product generations. This greatly accelerates getting a GPS fix. Some models will also get an approximate location via Bluetooth from a paired cell phone.

Long fix times are still an issue today with cameras that lack connectivity.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by glenngillen on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:36PM (#32795122)
I had a Garmin Forerunner (I can’t remember the number, 425 maybe?) circa 2007. IIRC it was one of the earliest on-wrist GPS devices Garmin did. Most of the time it would only take a minute. There would be occasions where it took much much longer. Increasingly so by the time I retired in 2018.
[dead]
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by osigurdson on Saturday September 10, 2022 @03:34PM (#32793910)
It interesting how Apple has been able to stay ahead while often being a step or two behind from a technological standpoint (in some areas at least). I think it goes to show how important it is to have things work in a very seamless way.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by gumby on Saturday September 10, 2022 @03:48PM (#32794044)
Many tech products are still sold on feature lists. Few people care any more.

This great (short and funny) internal video from Microsoft was supposed to be a wake up call, but nothing really changed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k

The fact that Apple doesn't really play that game seems to drive some people wild.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by bobthepanda on Saturday September 10, 2022 @05:10PM (#32794604)
The real player in this space is Nintendo, which specifically uses commodity hardware in its devices to drive down costs and to my knowledge does not sell consoles at loss the way that MS or Sony do or have done in the past.

As I once heard it described, Nintendo is fine to laugh about being a second-rate console all the way to the bank, because while MS and Sony fight out expensive battles to be people’s first consoles, the second console is usually Nintendo.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by kergonath on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:49PM (#32795184)
Apple has always been “behind” on some aspects and “ahead” on others. It boils down to the fact that they have their own priorities, which are different from what Android OEMs like to emphasise, which are also different from what people on Teh Interwebz like to go on about.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by Krasnol on Saturday September 10, 2022 @07:43PM (#32795476)
> stay ahead while often being a step or two behind

Yeah, good advertising can make even those sentences a valid statement.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by osigurdson on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:56PM (#32795897)
You dropped “from a technological standpoint” from the parent comment. Removing words from a sentence changes the meaning.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by scotty79 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:22PM (#32795026)
Ahead in what? Money they fleeced from US market? Core fanbase satisfaction? I don't think they were technologically ahead in anything in a decade or so. Unless you count inventing new charging ports and removing headphone jack or discovering that screen can have notches and customers still buy it.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by ulfw on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:51PM (#32795870)
unless you count the fast mobile chip year over year for the last decade, developed and designed in-house
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by scotty79 on Sunday September 11, 2022 @01:08AM (#32797009)
Are they leapfrogging their competition or just keeping pace with the first place going alternatively to Apple and Android chips every generation where simply the newest chip is the fastest?
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by ulfw on Sunday September 11, 2022 @04:00AM (#32797700)
When was the last time a Qualcomm (let alone an Exynos or Kirin etc) was faster than the Ax of that year? I can't even remember. Any ideas?
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by scotty79 on Monday September 12, 2022 @07:50AM (#32808754)
I don't know, but assuming the answer is never I got response to my original question.

Apple is ahead in the amount of money they fleeced from US market, core fanbase satisfaction and CPU speeds.

That's not nothing.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by jiggawatts on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:47PM (#32794461)
But things are better when they’re from Apple.

A random example is Apple TV vs any Smart TV.

I just bought a flagship Sony A95K smart television. It has everything, it ticks every checkbox, but the software is basically trash. Low effort garbage that should have failed QA the second you see any part of it.

It is 1080p upscaled to 4K, so it’s blurry!!! Even with my worsening vision I can see the fuzzy edges and it makes my eyes hurt.

It’s too dark so that in a bright room it is borderline invisible.

It isn’t color managed, which means the better the TV panel, the more garish it looks. On this QD-OLED panel it looks stupid bad.

The second you switch to the Apple TV you instantly realise why they’re the biggest company on earth. It’s beautiful! It’s crisp, fluid 4K with correct colors and brightness. Such simple things to get right.

Google (Android TV) and Sony just… couldn’t be bothered to any of that properly.

They threw some features in the and called it a day.

Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by rnk on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:06PM (#32794940)
I think you should check out google tv on the latest 4k version. Your review is almost like a sarcastic example of a lazy pro apple review. Some crap tv ui like that sony apparently is does not really say much about apple competitors. Apple is great at some things, but they aren't the only good thing.
Re:iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS by jiggawatts on Saturday September 10, 2022 @08:09PM (#32795634)
What are you talking about!? I have the latest Google TV operating system on the latest flagship Sony television, a model released just months ago! The Google TV OS on the latest available version.

There is no excuse for Google & Sony being so obviously inferior.

The difference between the two is night and day, not some "fanboyism". Switch inputs to the Apple TV and you instantly think "wow!" unless legally blind. Switch back and it's instant disappointment.

Dark oversaturated 1080p upscaled and blurry versus razor sharp native 4K with subtle hues is something anyone can recognise as a clear difference.

The downvotes on my original comment and your response is very telling.

Let me ask you: Have you actually sat down and compared the two? As in, plugged in an Apple TV 4K into an Android TV and switched back and forth?

Or are you just assuming I'm a "fanboy" and have a preference based on nothing more than tribalism?