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Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by sn0w_crash on Friday September 09, 2022 @09:22PM (#32786753)
We may need laws in place that prevent public accusations of this category of career-ending adjectives.
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by hirundo on Friday September 09, 2022 @09:41PM (#32786876)
Here's the flyer that was fatal to Oberlin's case:

https://firstamendmentwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/S...

"This is a RACIST establishment ...": That's a statement of opinion, not actionable.

"... with a LONG ACCOUNT of RACIAL PROFILING and DISCRIMINATION.": That's a statement of fact, and it was therefore actionable and cost Oberlin's insuror millions.

That seems like a reasonable way to split the difference between free speech and libel.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by Ferrotin on Friday September 09, 2022 @10:26PM (#32787149)
Are you a lawyer with experience handling these kinds of cases? "This is a RACIST establishment ..." sounds like a defamatory statement to my naive ears when it is made without any fact behind it.
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by jlawson on Friday September 09, 2022 @10:52PM (#32787269)
The power of the word "racist" (like all woke-words) is that it has lots of definitions, which the speaker can slip between depending on the needs of the moment.

In this case, the two definitions and their purposes would be:

Definition 1. "One not actively working to create equal outcomes for non-white groups (even simply being neutral/disinterested is racist in this definition)". This is the definition of racist in the popular How to Be an Antiracist. This would be used to attach the word to the target.

Definition 2. "One directly and intentionally harming people of non-white races out of conscious and deliberate hatred". Basically the KKK definition. This is the implication that's attached to the target, after definition 1 is used to "stick" the word onto the target.

It's an amazing "stick and stab" tactic that, somehow, we haven't yet developed cultural antibodies against.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by brightball on Friday September 09, 2022 @11:30PM (#32787501)
When did “non-white” get included into the definition of racism exactly? Those definitions are…I can’t find the word…
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by Gigachad on Saturday September 10, 2022 @01:57AM (#32788207)
The modern redefinition of racism is that it requires someone both be classically racist as well as having a higher privilege than the victim. So if you are racist to someone perceived as being higher privilege, it isn’t racist.
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by MomoXenosaga on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:21AM (#32789321)
To be fair people of "higher privilege" probably don't care too much what the unfortunates think of them.

But what annoys me is that class is now equated with race. There are millions of poor whites in America who are not nor ever will be privileged.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by rendall on Saturday September 10, 2022 @01:24AM (#32788042)
> "stick and stab" tactic

Nice. I have heard the term motte and bailey used to describe that tactic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by jlawson on Monday September 19, 2022 @09:54PM (#32906706)
Motte and bailey is defensive, stick and stab is offensive.
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by scarab92 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:00AM (#32787686)
Who considers "not actively working to create equal outcomes for non-white groups" racism?

I would be surprised if this reframing is accepted by enough of the population for a court to accept it.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by rayiner on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:03AM (#32787706)
That’s literally the thesis of a very popular book that appeared on a bunch of corporate reading lists in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibram_X._Kendi
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by matt-attack on Saturday September 10, 2022 @01:09AM (#32787967)
I think the point is that, while the book was popular, one doesn’t just get to redefine a word using a new opinion.

The entire premise is ludicrous but it’s shocking how many just adopt that line of thinking without any critical thought.

“If you’re not actively fighting against illegal rhino poaching, you are a literally a poacher. It’s not enough to simply “not poach”. You must actively go around physically stopping other poachers.”

Point being you can’t just pick one pet issue and proclaim that anyone who isn’t actively involved in irradiating that issue is necessarily complicit in the issue. There are just too many causes one might be interested in.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by itsthejb on Saturday September 10, 2022 @06:26AM (#32789348)
There is an example that always comes to my mind regarding this “logic”, and which I think used to crop up from other commentators around this. It’s potentially even more powerful since it comes from the other side of the political fence: The beginning of The War On Terror (™), and “if you aren’t with us, you’re with the terrorists”. This is exact the same manipulative fallacy. However, pointing this out would need to assume those using it are good faith actors, whereas I’d suggest this argument is evidence of bad faith
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by josephcsible on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:48AM (#32787866)
Yep, it's entirely based around the equivocation fallacy. "Bats are small flying mammals. Baseball is played with bats. Therefore, baseball is played with small flying mammals."
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 09, 2022 @09:32PM (#32786824)
https://cpj.org/reports/2016/03/north-america/

Some states have them, some don’t, and the US Constitution’s First Amendment puts limits on the laws that do exist.

Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by remarkEon on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:06AM (#32787715)
It's 1A but it's also SCOTUS precedent. If NYT v. Sullivan were to be revisited, these limits could change. Justice Thomas has expressed (on multiple occasions, though I don't have the opinions handy) that he wants to do that. Personally I think it should be revisited. The recent case of a Duke volleyball student claiming that racial epithets were yelled at her during a came turned out to be false, but not after the usual cycle of social media enabled outrage. I bring it up because it's another instance where all of the facts are easily verifiable, and journalists seem to not care to actually look at them and report what actually happened.
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by puffoflogic on Saturday September 10, 2022 @11:10AM (#32791328)
Well we can't have SCOTUS following the suggestions of racists like Thomas. /s?
Re:Oberlin College to pay $36M to bakery owners who were fal... by pyuser583 on Saturday September 10, 2022 @12:25AM (#32787789)
Laws like that are in place, and they’re what ended McCarthyism.

One problem is they are very civilly focused. How much money did you lose? A corporate execute might be out millions, while the guy at MacDonalds might be out a few thousand.