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Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by aviCC on Thursday September 01, 2022 @07:53AM (#32675091)
I use an 11 years old desktop computer, with a few upgrades (memory, SSD). It is good enough for my virtual machines and other heavy programs.

I don't see a reason to invest in a laptop if 90% of the time you work in the same place. For the other 10% - buy a cheap laptop.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by adrian_b on Thursday September 01, 2022 @04:05PM (#32682322)
Also because of working most of the time in the same place, I have decided to not invest in a new laptop.

However the solution that I have chosen for travelling, when that is necessary, is different.

For my work, I need a large number of peripheral ports, as many Thunderbolt, USB Ethernet ports as possible and enough ports for multiple monitors. I also need at least 64 GB of DRAM, which excludes a very large number of the current laptop models, especially among the AMD models, which cannot be configured with so much memory.

Also, after becoming older, I strongly prefer a larger display, so I would want a laptop with a 17" display.

While there are a lot of laptop models that match my requirements, they are also very expensive and quite heavy.

I have realized that I can get all the features that I want at a much lower price and even at a lower weight, by using an Intel NUC or similar computer, together with a portable 17" monitor and a compact keyboard for the occasions when I have to carry it.

Even when I have used laptops, I have never used them on my lap or in any place where there was no power plug, so their advantages for such uses do not matter for me.

Besides the lower price and weight, the NUC solution also has the advantage of a better performance than most laptops using the same CPU, due to a better cooler that allows a high steady-state power dissipation without thermal throttling (e.g. in the current Wall Street Canyon Intel NUCs, the Alder Lake P CPUs with a nominal TDP of 28 W are configured to dissipate 35 W for an indefinite time, while many thin laptops with Alder Lake P cannot dissipate even 28 W without throttling).

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Thursday September 01, 2022 @04:35PM (#32682750)
I can't really make up if this is a joke or not. Assuming it isn't, seriously ? If someone needs a laptop the pre-requisite is to be portable. This solution is not a laptop replacement. Why not simply move around with your desktop ? Actually this is what is suggested, monitor et al.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by adrian_b on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:26PM (#32683478)
It is not at all a joke.

When you have monitors at the destination, e.g. when commuting between home and office, it is much easier to carry in the backpack or in the briefcase a NUC than a laptop. A NUC-like computer weighs much less than 1 kg, typically between 0.3 kg and 0.5 kg.

Even if you go e.g. in a business trip and you carry with you a portable 17" inch monitor (weight around 1 kg) and a compact keyboard, the weight is less than that of an equivalent 17" mobile workstation, which weighs between 2.5 kg and 3.5 kg.

So yes, a NUC is much easier to carry than a large laptop, and when you already have a monitor at the destination it is much easier to carry than the thinnest and lightest ultrabook.

I have carried NUCs daily to the office for years, because it was much more convenient than carrying the laptop, but previously I have not also used them for most business trips, because I did not have a portable monitor.

A NUC can be also battery-powered like a laptop, e.g. by using a laptop charger from Anker or similar, but I have needed this very seldom.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:38PM (#32683628)
I understand. Just talking about weight a Macbook 16" is 2 Kg. So it would be much lighter, more integrated then carrying around all these pieces. If you go in a business trip you need the integration and battery of a laptop. Allright, this is not a 17" inches but you can easily increase the text size if needed.

Of course to each its own and is perfect that this solution works for you. But suggesting that is a lighter alternative to a real, modern laptop is incorrect. As it is the article that seems to advocate using obsolete browsers, obsolete editors and no modern software for the sake of saving money or the World.

The truth is that whomever depends on a computer for paid work needs performance. New processors (like the apple M1) are much faster than a 6-7 years old laptop. And, if the green cause is important, much more efficient energy management and longer battery life.

If you need power and quality (think images/video editing) you can't work with software and hardware of a decade (of two decades ago).

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by syntheweave on Friday September 02, 2022 @10:05PM (#32697889)
Yes, it's the performance standards that keep me in the market.

While the embedded energy cost in new devices is noteworthy, I've run through the causes and consequences, and we still have a rationale to keep pushing up performance and energy at hardware level before trying to gut features.

And once you get on that treadmill, you're generally stuck buying at the same price points because when you go downmarket, the manufacturers will remove I/O and BIOS settings, solder the flash drive, etc.

That said, buying slightly old(even refurbished with no wear) is a great savings and I always tend to opt towards that for computers.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by benj111 on Saturday September 03, 2022 @04:23AM (#32699881)
You can keep upgrading whilst buying old though. If you keep your current computer for 10 years and upgrade to a 5 year old model.

You're aware of the treadmill. Hack it.

I'm sure someone will oblige by linking to the xkcd comic playing games 20 years behind everyone else.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by dylan604 on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:26AM (#32691922)
Never mind the 15mins of setup time whenever you arrive at your new destination for working vs just opening the lid.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by madrobot on Friday September 02, 2022 @08:35AM (#32689872)
I think the trend with macbook pros without a display ( will swap over to us) with monitors at different places or a virtual reality device with some tool like immersed. its lighter without a display, everything else is included ( keyboard, trackpad, batteries, sound and so on)
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by NortySpock on Friday September 02, 2022 @12:45PM (#32692897)
Nice solution!

I guess you cannot call it a 'luggable' like in days of yore, since it is not heavy, but I wonder if there's a snazzy term for a portable headless computer...

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by graeber_28927 on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:28PM (#32683512)
I guess "portable" can mean many things. A laptop is nice to have while traveling, in the car, on the train, or when I just want to sit on the couch or on the terrace while working on hobby stuff.

And a NUC is great when I visit my parents for two weeks but want to keep working remotely. That way I don't have to disassemble my gaming setup (thinking of cable management), or worry that something happens to the PC. It's still a great remote working experience, and cheaper than a capable laptop.

I see the appeal in both. But to be honest, I'm not in need for a high end machine for my work, nor hobbies, so I just use a work laptop for work, and spin up gitpod for my own stuff, which a chromebook could run.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:43PM (#32683685)
Thanks for sharing. I feel that this is the point of the article too "if you don't need a high end machine...." but if you do you can't really afford to change your laptop after 10 years when most of the software won't run anymore and no securities updates are circulating for 5+ years.

I find this type of advice (change your laptop only every 10 years to save the world) irresponsible to say the least.

Imagine visiting a medical doctor with obsolte X-Ray technology, lab analysis tools etc. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that regardless of the money they saved or the illusionary "save the world" green footprint.

Of course none of this matter if one doesn't require the latest technology or software (e.g. Adobe etc.).

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by pmontra on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:56AM (#32692301)
> no securities updates are circulating for 5+ years

I don't understand this one. My laptop was born with Ubuntu 14.04 (actually it came with Windows 7, I formatted it with Linux out of the box) and software still runs and I'm still getting security updates. I'm on Ubuntu 20.04 now. Would it be different if I was on Windows? I think I would be on Windows 10 now.

The only problems I could think about are: software needs some new graphic card or more memory that could fit into the laptop. Add the lack of spare parts, but this is another kind of failure.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by Meph504 on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:01AM (#32691643)
I've done a lot of med tech, and I can assure you, outside of most large hospitals (and even many of those.) The tech is staggeringly out of date by most standards.

Getting things approved as a medical device, and then updating the software, operating system, etc.. for it is a huge pain in the ass.

I know that wasn't the point, but just wanted to mention it.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by dylan604 on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:26AM (#32691912)
>I guess "portable" can mean many things.

It really sounds like we need to bring back the term "luggable"

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rrdharan on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:45AM (#32692137)
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/details.php?RECORD_KEY%28museum%2...

> In the 1990's the Ergo Brick achieved significant acclaim due to its unique design. Before powerful notebook computers came along, Ergo defined the category "transportable computer" with grace and power. You used a Brick if you wanted portable horsepower (in contrast with wimpy early notebooks).

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by selykg on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:17AM (#32691813)
Buddy of mine sent a picture years ago of a guy who brought his iMac into the local Starbucks and did his work there on that machine, at a table, for hours.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by mrweasel on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:39AM (#32692063)
I’ve gone the opposite way. After having used the MacBook Air with the M1, I don’t want anything bigger. I have a 16” MacBook Pro and that’s honestly to big for me to get any real use out of it as a laptop. I’d like to move around more, but not with something of the size.

If I need the big screen, or keyboard I just “dock” it to a USB-C monitor.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by pmontra on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:50AM (#32692229)
I've been thinking about doing that but what do you do about the monitor? I imagine you're not bringing one with you (maybe you're moving one around your home), but what happens when you move to work in other places? Customers, friend's places, restaurants, etc.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by Joeri on Friday September 02, 2022 @12:32PM (#32692739)
I use the m1 air for web development and the 16:10 aspect ratio combined with the retina screen and the gestures to easily swipe between full screen applications makes it feel less cramped than the 14 inch 1080p thinkpad it replaced. I never feel the need to hook it up to external displays. Of course, YMMV.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Thursday September 01, 2022 @04:37PM (#32682786)
I don't want to sound dimissive but if you code anything more than 90's stuff an 11 years old desktop won't cut it. Especially if you have an apple computer. Such a model is not just obsolete but would open a lot of security issues.

Invest in a laptop? With the current prices pretty much everyone that uses a computer professionally can afford a laptop.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by blark on Thursday September 01, 2022 @05:51PM (#32683777)
Until last year I used a 2011 iMac with Linux, 24gb of RAM and an SSD. Quite a bit better in performance and security than laptops I've seen engineers issued last year.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Friday September 02, 2022 @06:30AM (#32689011)
the key is "with linux". Try developing iOS apps or do anything within the apple ecosystem (e.g. check your photos?). Not viable for 99.9% of mac users.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by blark on Friday September 02, 2022 @07:00AM (#32689187)
My computer was too old for Apple, a characteristic similar to saying 90% of brand new laptops are too blonde. There are very few modern Apple development machines but anyone with an old desktop can make most modern software. (There are also plenty of exceptions where an Arm laptop isn't usable in software development, so nothing is universal.)
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by password4321 on Friday September 02, 2022 @03:47PM (#32695027)
In case you're not aware: OpenCore Legacy Patcher

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32614135

https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/#readme

> running and unlocking features in macOS on supported and unsupported Macs

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by blark on Friday September 02, 2022 @06:06PM (#32696250)
Thanks, I didn't know much about that and it could be helpful with relatives, etc.

Most of the Apple hardware bought for me has been by employers who understood I wasn't going to use Apple software. In the big scheme of things, it is better to have a reduced set of drivers and pay a bit more than have an employee fiddling on drivers because Acer skimmed another $1 off their motherboard cost.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by moondev on Friday September 02, 2022 @04:20AM (#32688105)
Way faster FireWire and DVDR speed too
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by rdevnull on Friday September 02, 2022 @06:31AM (#32689019)
sure and no way to look at your photos in icloud, connect to music or interact with apple tv (or develop or test any app).

But sure, you don't need icloud if you got your photos on DVD right ?

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by moondev on Friday September 02, 2022 @09:23AM (#32690463)
DVD? zipdisk over firewire has all my sony mavica 640x480s.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by michaelt on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:43AM (#32692116)
11 years ago was only 2011.

My 2011 desktop has a 3.5GHz 4-core i7 processor, 32GB of RAM and of a 1TB SSD.

In the interim there's been the adoption of USB-C, improvements in energy efficiency and widespread 4K display support - but raw performance numbers aren't much changed. Go to Dell with $2000 and with the laptop performance penalty they'll offer you... pretty much the same specs, except the CPU will have some extra 'efficiency' cpu cores and be called '11th generation' instead of '2nd generation'.

Are you perhaps thinking of some previous decade, where 10 years meant 20x the clockspeed and 2x the cores?

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by scarface74 on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:47AM (#32692183)
You can definitely code in Node and Python with a 10 year old laptop. My 10 year old desktop that my son uses is a Core i3 3.66Ghz with 6GB RAM.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by jryb on Saturday September 03, 2022 @01:12AM (#32698954)
I do all my development on a remote server, so I really just need a terminal emulator and an internet connection. I could work with a raspberry pi if I needed to. Sure, fundamentally it's just moving the problem of where the expensive computer is, but now there's only needs to be one of them.
Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by benj111 on Saturday September 03, 2022 @04:33AM (#32699923)
Aren't you then just perpetuating the problem though.

If all developers have the latest and greatest computers, the software works great for them, meanwhile the plebs are forced to upgrade to keep up.

Maybe developers should have to use an older computer if only to check usability for everyone else.

Re:How and why I stopped buying new laptops by dylan604 on Friday September 02, 2022 @11:28AM (#32691936)
This is what finally convinced me to move from a 2011 MBP. The trend of offloading everything to the GPU on a system that has the weakest of GPUs killed that computer as useable.