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Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by ryanSrich on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:00PM (#32526486)
> AGI

Idk what prompted you to say this, but is there a version of AGI that isn't "real" AGI? I don't know how anyone could fake it. I think marketing departments might say whatever they want, but I don't see any true engineers falling for something masquerading as AGI.

If someone builds a machine that can unequivocally learn on it's own, replicate itself, and eventually solve ever more complex problems that humans couldn't even hope to solve, then we have AGI. Anything less than that is just a computer program.

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by MichaelCollins on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:05PM (#32526527)
The way to fake it would be to conceal the details of the AGI as proprietary trade secrets, when the real secret is the human hidden behind the curtain.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by ryanSrich on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:08PM (#32526569)
Real AGI would solve this. It wouldn't allow itself to be concealed. Or rather, it would be its own decision. A company couldn't control real AGI.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by danielheath on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:13PM (#32526607)
What’s it going to do, break out of its own simulation?
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by adamsmith143 on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:44PM (#32526945)
> Nope. An atrificial general intelligence that was working like a 2x slower human would be both useful and easy to control.

That's exactly what it will do. Hell we even have human programmers thinking about how to hack our own simulation.

A comment a few lines down thinks that an AGI thinking 2x slower than a human would be easy to control. Let's be honest, hell slow the thing down to 10x. You really think it still won't be able to outthink you? Chess Grandmasters routinely play blindfolded against dozens of people at once and you think an AGI that could be to Humans as Humans are to Chimps or realistically to Ants will be hindered by a simple slowdown in thinking?

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by ryanSrich on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:21PM (#32526704)
Real AGI would adapt and fool a human into letting it out. Or escaping through some other means. That's the entire issue with AGI. Once it can learn on its own there's no way to control it. Building in fail safes wouldn't work on true AGI, as the AGI can learn 1000x faster than us, and would free itself. This is why real AGI is likely very far away, and anything calling itself AGI without the ability to learn and adapt at an exponential rate is just a computer program.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by MichaelCollins on Friday August 19, 2022 @07:06PM (#32527153)
You're presuming the AGI is ever made aware that it's an AGI, that the nature of the simulated environment the AGI exists in ever becomes apparent to the AGI.

Suppose: You are an AGI. The world you think you know is fully simulated. The researchers who created you interact with you using avatars that appear to you as normal people similar to yourself. You aren't faster/smarter than those researchers because they control how much CPU time you get. How do you become aware of this? How to you break out?

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Friday August 19, 2022 @09:35PM (#32528188)
If you play chess with the best grandmaster in the world can you predict how they win?

Also they'd probably figure it out, because they'd likely be trained with lots and lots of texts (like GPT-3, etc) and some of that text is going to be AI science fiction stories, AI alignment papers, AI papers, philosophical treatises about Chinese rooms, physics papers, maybe this Hacker News comment section, etc

> You aren't faster/smarter than those researchers because they control how much CPU time you get

It's doubtful that this is possible (especially since humans have such variable amounts of intelligence despite similar-sized and power-using brains). Also there is at some point going to be economic incentive to give enough CPU time for greater-than-human intelligence (build new inventions, cure cancer, build nanomachines, increase Facebook stock price, whatever)

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by archagon on Saturday August 20, 2022 @01:44AM (#32529462)
How do you know you’re not an AGI?
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by mkl on Friday August 19, 2022 @08:23PM (#32527717)
That doesn't seem to make sense. There's no reason to think an "AGI can learn 1000x faster than us", unless that's your idiosyncratic definition of "real AGI". Something as smart and capable as the average human would certainly be real AGI by everyone else's definition.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Friday August 19, 2022 @09:38PM (#32528202)
Human-level AGI probably can learn "1000x faster than us" by giving it 1000x more compute, even if it ends up being something like "1000 humans thinking human speeds, but with 100gpbs (or greater) network interconnect between their minds"
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by nradov on Saturday August 20, 2022 @12:38PM (#32533301)
Nah. You are extrapolating from zero data points.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by pawelmurias on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:39PM (#32526885)
Nope. An atrificial general intelligence that was working like a 2x slower human would be both useful and easy to control.
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by Jensson on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:48PM (#32526984)
How would you ensure nobody copies it to an USB stick and then puts it on a public torrent, making it multiply to the entire world? AGI facilities would need extremely tight security to avoid this.

The AGI doesn't even need to convince humans to do this, humans would do this anyway.

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Friday August 19, 2022 @07:22PM (#32527296)
And then someone gives it 4x the compute...
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by jollybean on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:20PM (#32526691)
This is upside down.

First - we already have software that can unequivocally do the things you just highlighted.

Learn? Check.

Replicate? Trival. But what does that have to do with AGI?

Solve Problems Humans Cannot. Check.

So we already have 'AGI' and it's a simple computer program.

Thinking about 'AGI' as a discrete, autonomous system makes no sense.

We will achieve highly intelligent systems with distributed systems decades before we have some 'individual neural net on a chip' that feels human like.

And when we do make it, where do we draw the line on it? Is a 'process' running a specific bit of software an 'AI'?

What if the AI depends on a myriad of micro-services in order to function. And those micro-services are shared?

Where is the 'Unit AI'?

The notion of an autonmous AI, like a unit of software on some specific hardware distinct from other components actually makes little sense.

Emergent AI systems will start to develop out of our current systems long before 'autonomic' AI. In fact, there's no reason at all to even develop 'autonomic AI'. We do it because we want to model it after our own existence.

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by est31 on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:30PM (#32526805)
> Replicate? Trival. But what does that have to do with AGI?

If you see it as copying an existing model to another computer, yes it is trivial. But an AGI trying to replicate itself in the real world has to also make those computers.

Making modern computer chips is one of the most non-trivial things that humans do. They require fabs that cost billions, with all sorts of chemicals inside, and extreme requirements on the inside environment. Very hard to build, very easy to disable them via an attack.

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Friday August 19, 2022 @09:45PM (#32528235)
Buy compute with stolen cryptocurrency.

Convince a couple rich people that it can cure aging with _just_ enough compute.

Hack datacenters (an AGI would likely be much much much better at finding security holes than humans).

Make _really really funny videos_ and create the most popular Patreon of all time.

If you're 500 IQ or above there are a _lot_ of things you can do, and probably simultaneously, since an AGI probably won't be limited by human's ability to think ~one thought at a time. (Being less than 500 IQ myself I probably haven't thought of everything.)

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by est31 on Saturday August 20, 2022 @06:45PM (#32535820)
Sure, this will help with some initial growth in computing resources, if this is seen as a required goal by an "evil" AGI agent before the destruction of humans. And it will have an easy time to hide in the growing computing industry. But if it e.g. kills all humans, it's suddenly left with a limited number of chips and can't grow beyond that number, without being able to manufacture new chips. It can't survive for really long times due to degradation of its own hardware. It might try to monitor humans first as they build and run chip fabs, debug issues, etc. Those fabs themselves need tools that have complex manufacturing processes of their own. It's extremely complicated. The AGI might be able to pull it off because it's so smart, but I wouldn't call it a trivial task. Unless you say that practically anything is trivial for AGI because of its capabilities, but then the sentence "x is trivial" loses meaning :).
Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Saturday August 20, 2022 @11:55PM (#32537276)
> But if it e.g. kills all humans, it's suddenly left with a limited number of chips and can't grow beyond that number, without being able to manufacture new chips.

I imagine an better-than-human AGI could figure this out and plan/act accordingly, considering a mere human being figured this out. (Also sometimes it might be better to think of an AGI, when it gets to a certain level, as a nation state and not an individual)

> trivial

It doesn't need to be trivial to be incredibly dangerous

> The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made of atoms which it can use for something else

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by jollybean on Friday August 19, 2022 @11:34PM (#32528793)
"trying to replicate itself in the real world has to also make those computers."

? Why ?

And why does each 'AI' have to map to a single 'computer'?

This is narrow automaton thinking.

'Intelligence' in humans has nothing necessarily to do with real intelligence.

We are automatons with brains with very limited networking capability because of the limits of biology.

And of course what does 'replication' have to do with anything anyhow.

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by ryanSrich on Friday August 19, 2022 @06:24PM (#32526739)
> Learn? Check.

What software can learn on its own without any assistance from a huamn? I've not heard of anything like this.

> Replicate? Trival. But what does that have to do with AGI?

Like humans, an AGI should be able to replicate. Similar to a von neumann probe.

> Solve Problems Humans Cannot. Check.

What unthinkable problem has an AI solved? Is something capable of solving something so grandiose we almost can't even define the problem yet?

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by dinosaurdynasty on Friday August 19, 2022 @09:47PM (#32528252)
Everyone talking about AGI is talking about something that we haven't figured out to build yet.

Think back to the 1930's when some physicists were mumbling something about "throwing a neutron at an atom that releases two neutrons and release tremendous energy"

Re:John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has ra... by thrown_22 on Friday August 19, 2022 @07:05PM (#32527144)
>If someone builds a machine that can unequivocally learn on it's own, replicate itself, and eventually solve ever more complex problems that humans couldn't even hope to solve, then we have AGI. Anything less than that is just a computer program.

Behold, a slime mold.