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Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by robbiep on Thursday August 18, 2022 @02:05AM (#32505876)
How are we sure and how are we sure

This is basic evolutionary theory that has been subsequently played out in both the lab and in the wild. You can't prove a negative but your requirement for reassurance will only be assuaged by furthering your own understanding of evolution on a molecular level, it doesn't seem like anything I could say to you in a reply to an internet post would make the slightest bit of difference to your skepticism and you'd have to get the basic grounding in yourself. The full answer would require 3-4 years of fulltime study, the shorter answer could be arrived at by reading the blind watchmaker and climbing mount improbably, two highly accessible books on evolutionary biology

Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by jjcon on Thursday August 18, 2022 @03:10AM (#32506304)
I actually asked ‘how sure are we’ - you’re right though, just saying - learn more about it - isn’t exactly helpful. If it is as ‘basic’ as you say maybe you could explain it rather than just appeal to authority.
Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by dogcomplex on Thursday August 18, 2022 @04:45AM (#32506929)
I think OP is trying to say this is a complex field which requires a long-form medium (books, at minimum) to explain the current evolutionary theory work to a layman. But among researchers in that field this falls within the "basics", and so barring a fundamental upheaval of a lot of well-observed theories (outlined briefly in those books) we're in the clear.

I think this is fair, even if a bit frustrating that the explanation can't be broken down simpler to laymen.

Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by robbiep on Thursday August 18, 2022 @04:02AM (#32506678)
I’m sorry but I can’t state this any more plainly without this turning into a lecture. It is basic evolutionary biology, in as much as gravity keeps your feet attached to the ground. It is not an appeal to authority, it is simply a statement of fact and an underlying premise of a complex field. You seem like the sort of person who likes doing your own research - I’ve given you the key to the door now you just have to walk through it
Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by DubiousPusher on Thursday August 18, 2022 @04:19AM (#32506799)
Is this a statistical reality? As in it would take a 1/1,000,000 chance to evolve out of this local maxima?

Or is it a logical reality? i.e. we know the possible permutations of the RNA and from its current state it could not reach an escape branch?

Edit: FYI, my biology is weak but it has occured to me that there must be a topology of evolution.

Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by jjcon on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:40AM (#32510324)
This is what I was getting at - almost nothing in my scientific field is 100% and I find that true of most things. Thus my question- how sure are we. If we are at six sigma levels great, but I find that at odds with the little I do know.
Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by jjcon on Thursday August 18, 2022 @10:41AM (#32510343)
So it is 100% certainty then? Not just very unlikely? The quantification of certainty among experts is what I am wondering
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Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by jjcon on Thursday August 18, 2022 @06:41PM (#32515692)
Quit being so hostile, if you are not interested in discussion I would recommend not spending time on discussion boards.

You first spoke as if it was an absolute certainty ("This is basic evolutionary theory") and now are saying, "all of the normal caveats apply" which is exactly what I was getting at in my OP thread. The "normal caveats"/edge cases are exactly what this whole discussion is about. Clearly we are speaking past one another, I apologize for my role in whatever went wrong here.

Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by robbiep on Thursday August 18, 2022 @11:28PM (#32517336)
I'm sorry you're interpreting my comments as hostility, but basically you're being a the sort of commenter that it isn't really worth engaging with. You're not interested in my answers, and you've accused me of using arguments from authority. From my perspective you seem intent on finding some loophole where i'm either lying to you or i'm incorrect. In a message board format, particularly with the number of outright bad actors when it comes to anything COVID related, how is it actually in my interest to provide you with a freshman course on molecular biology?

The problem is you haven't grasped that they're actually the same answer. It can be true that a field driven by stochastic behaviour consists mostly of degrees and probabilities, and still, due to the realities of how evolution and natural selection work, mean that it is impossible for an extremely highly conserved component of spike protein to jump to a new configuration, that at the same time escapes antibody response for the conserved region and maintains any degree of fitness in the wild.

Please park your antagonism and if you are actually interested, walk through the door and explore the field yourself. It's fascinating

Re:New antibody neutralizes all known SARS-CoV-2 variants in... by jjcon on Thursday August 18, 2022 @11:58PM (#32517459)
> mean that it is impossible for an extremely highly conserved component of spike protein to jump to a new configuration, that at the same time escapes antibody response for the conserved region and maintains any degree of fitness in the wild.

See this is exactly the sort of quantification I was asking for from the beginning (albeit still somewhat vague). Others in the thread have already answered most of my questions (read the other threads if you like) but you just kept talking past them until now. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

> walk through the door and explore the field yourself. It's fascinating

That is precisely what I am trying to do here because I do find it fascinating as well. I have to be allowed to ask questions (even stupid ones) and I do those primarily in discussion forums like HN.