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Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by 015a on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:00PM (#32443837)
To not bury the lead: His team studied data the government made available from military missile tracking systems, which conveniently also false-positives on asteroids. There was one in 2014 which slammed into the Pacific Ocean at a speed at least twice that of the speed stars around us move relative to the sun, which makes it likely to be extra-solar. Based on that speed & how much burned upon entry, they concluded its material must be tougher than iron. They're planning an expedition to the oceanic area around Papa New Guinea, mostly funded through private donations, to recover the object.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by nine_k on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:55PM (#32444388)
I can imagine their disappointment if all they recover would be a few tons of platinum, iridium and such. /s
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by elcritch on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:16PM (#32444616)
And here I didn't even consider the chance that it was an elaborate ruse to grab a punch of rare-earth metals. Apparently my heavy diet of sci-fi and techno thrillers hasn't trained me well enough yet. ;)
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by ajnin on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:40PM (#32445274)
These are not rare earths, rare earths are a family of chemically similar elements close together in the periodic table that are not actually that rare geologically. Platinum and iridium are just rare elements.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by jonathankoren on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:59PM (#32446507)
I love how this would be the exact inverse of the Project Azorian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by SavageBeast on Saturday August 13, 2022 @01:50AM (#32447270)
Theres a great documentary about that by the name 'Azorian - The Raising of The K129 on Amazon' - I think I bought it for $1 - you should give it a watch if you haven't yet.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by NaturalPhallacy on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:54PM (#32445374)
Or just a chunk of titanium. It's only made in novas and supernovas so having an abnormal trajectory, and speed only supports the theory. A bunch of titanium slapped onto some rock and then later breaks off or something.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by dnadler on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:18PM (#32445551)
My understanding is that anything heavier than iron is made by supernovae, so the same could be said of the majority of elements.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by NaturalPhallacy on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:30PM (#32445628)
Right, but titanium is stronger than steel, let alone iron.

>When compared to steel in a strength-to-weight ratio, titanium is far superior, as it is as strong as steel but 45% lighter. In fact, titanium has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of all known metals.

There's a reason cherry picked titanium. :)

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by eloff on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:47PM (#32446146)
Strength doesn't matter here as much as melting point. When they say tougher than Iron, I imagine they mean it ablated less in the atmosphere. I don't know what elements that might mean. Certainly not platinum group metals. Tungsten possibly. Carbon or diamond. Or alien tech.

Edit: "Based on the speed of the meteor and how much of the object burned upon entry, Loeb determined that it must be made of a material that is tougher than iron."

Yup.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by msrenee on Saturday August 13, 2022 @01:28PM (#32451936)
As your quote says, titanium has a higher strength to weight ratio. It's not necessarily stronger, and it's not necessarily "tougher" against the circumstances described than whatever type of iron they think it might be. The meteor isn't out to minimize weight. The strength to weight ratio isn't relavent here at all and does not make titanium more likely to survive until the object comes to rest on Earth.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by nine_k on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:07PM (#32446288)
I wonder if titanium would largely burn in the atmosphere. Titanium fires are a thing in supersonic aviation.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by insane_dreamer on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:46PM (#32444869)
unobtanium
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by mindcrime on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:56PM (#32445390)
Maybe it's prefabulated amulite?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by techdragon on Saturday August 13, 2022 @01:05AM (#32447094)
Perfect! I need more for my baseplates.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by dieselgate on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:20PM (#32445129)
this gave a good chuckle
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by bodfinch on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:06PM (#32445018)
Or re-entry rocket boosters
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by doubleunplussed on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:25PM (#32445167)
Those would not be travelling at extra-solar speeds.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by giantg2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:18PM (#32444630)
Isn't it sort of funny that they think the asteroid might be some new material, or at least something tougher than iron, yet they are planning to use a magnet to pull up pieces? What happens if it's non-ferrous...
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by GistNoesis on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:52PM (#32444920)
In theory you can use a special arrangement of alternative current electromagnets to attract some conductive materials : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mQeaKkaEcQ
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by jboy55 on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:01PM (#32445846)
The fact they are bringing a magnet shows how confident they are its iron. My hypothetical scenario:

"There's a chance its not iron but something new!"

"What chance is that?"

"Its inverse to the chance we told our funders, who gave us millions to collect it with a magnet, that it was iron."

"So its pretty guaranteed its iron"

"Yup".

"Aren't your funders concerned you are saying it could be something different than iron?"

"You see the name of the university and a few corporations on the ship? Would you be talking to us if we were just getting a run of the mill iron metorite?"

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by gus_massa on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:42PM (#32446113)
It may be an iron alloy. Many of them are magnetic.

If it's an extra hard iron alloy it would be more interesting because they can analyze it and perhaps reproduce the composition and perhaps the heat process that created the meteorite.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by TechBro8615 on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:06PM (#32446278)
I love the way Avi says Hah-vahd.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by texasbigdata on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:24PM (#32444687)
Using a magnet seems like not a top 5 idea someone would have.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by cplusplusfellow on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:15PM (#32445527)
Say you find the asteroid on bottom of ocean. What sort of hoisting apparatus do you propose we use to bring it ashore?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by mecsred on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:31PM (#32445635)
Claw. Bucket. Reinforced net. Submersible ROV. Trained sea life. Anything that's not a magnet.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by giantg2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:45PM (#32446129)
Supposedly it's in pieces from the impact. Small samples would be fine to locate and collect via ROV with a metal detector on it to check below the silt.

If they want mass extraction after that, then potentially a form a dredging could be used (vacuum and filter could work to leave the sand and silt on the bottom).

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by Flankk on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:47PM (#32445740)
Core sample via remote controlled submarine. Magnets sounds goofy. I suspect he knows something we don't.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by hhh on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:31PM (#32445639)
Arcade claw, with coin slot and all.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by adolph on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:40PM (#32445691)
Too bad they scrapped the submarine lifting grapple equipped Glomar Explorer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by anigbrowl on Friday August 12, 2022 @09:48PM (#32446155)
Inflatable ballasts
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by klyrs on Saturday August 13, 2022 @12:29PM (#32451370)
Tractor beam.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by headelf on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:00PM (#32444439)
If it's tougher than iron, why are they planning to use a magnet to retrieve it?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by ericlewis on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:03PM (#32444472)
I suppose because they didn't say it was less magnetic than iron?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by jahewson on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:26PM (#32444704)
All other metals are less magnetic than iron.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by nocterro on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:50PM (#32444904)
Niobium?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by skykooler on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:48PM (#32445338)
Niobium on its own isn't even ferromagnetic, it's paramagnetic, and not very strong. However, it can be alloyed with other metals including iron and nickel to produce a stronger magnet than any pure element.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by eloff on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:13PM (#32444594)
This seems a reasonable question to me, not having read the article. IIRC from grade school days, only a few metallic elements are magnetic. Iron, nickel, cobalt, and some rare earth metals. That was a long time ago and doubtless oversimplified, but please do enlighten me why it would be expected to be magnetic?

It seems like they must still be assuming it's largely made of Iron.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by LoveMortuus on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:23PM (#32444678)
Ferromagnetic matter is magnetic by nature. If you look at the periodic table you'll see that most of the elements are actually metals. Below Carbon there's a line which parts metals from semi metals and non metals.

But with proper equipment you can detect non magnetic conductive materials. Not sure what's it called, but if you pass a magnet near eg. copper the magnetic force from the magnet will induce electricity on copper which in turn with also produce a slight magnetic field. There are many good YouTube videos on this topic and they're quite cool! (https://youtu.be/u7Rg0TcHQ4Y)

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by eloff on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:07PM (#32446287)
That's not what they're doing though. There literally going to drag a magnet across the sea floor and examine anything that sticks to it. Which will be largely iron, nickel, and cobalt. Were it to be alien tech, it probably won't have large amounts of those and won't stick to the magnet. At least it seems that way to me. Could you make a magnet that would create a strong enough attraction to pick up a piece of gold? I suspect not, or there would be a reality TV show with rednecks trawling the ocean in Alaska with magnets, searching for gold.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by LoveMortuus on Saturday August 13, 2022 @11:59AM (#32451061)
Even though I would love to see any non-human technology, I would probably bet that they're just going to find a bunch of dust, rocks and of course, human trash.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by wnkrshm on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:38PM (#32444809)
Paramagnetism. There is also Diamagnetism and Anti-Ferromagnetism.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by a9h74j on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:42PM (#32445286)
Definitely. But of course a metal detector coil can also look at simple change of inductance, hence responding to conductivity even with magnetic mu = 0.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by TooKool4This on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:17PM (#32444621)
Nope you are right. Ferromagnetism is very rare in nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism#Ferromagnetic_m...

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by TooKool4This on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:13PM (#32444597)
I am not sure toughness has anything to do with ferromagnetic properties. But it seems like a bad idea anyways considering that very few materials are naturally ferromagnetic.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by dreamcompiler on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:36PM (#32445238)
Steel (to cite just one example) is "tougher than iron" and still attracted to magnets (except for some types of stainless steel).
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by micromacrofoot on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:24PM (#32444686)
I guess it’s easy and rules some things out
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by simple10 on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:30PM (#32444735)
Perhaps they are expecting there to be a fair bit of iron along with the rare material, no?
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by system2 on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:12PM (#32444570)
Tougher doesn't make it less magnetic.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by ineptech on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:28PM (#32445187)
I get the "from outside our solar system" part, and it seems believable that sensors designed for missile tracking would get enough telemetry info to establish that.

But the "tougher than iron" part? Based just on how much material was lost during atmospheric entry, as reported by sensors not really designed for that purpose? That's a tough pill to swallow. It would be really interesting to hear more about how much this asteroid differed from others measured by the same equipment.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by wiml on Saturday August 13, 2022 @01:35AM (#32447207)
I have a dim memory that missile tracking systems pay close attention to how fast an object decelerates when it hits atmosphere, as part of distinguishing real warheads from decoys. Maybe you can use that data to estimate how fast a rock is eroding að it falls.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by lisper on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:04PM (#32443880)
Papua, not Papa.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by caseyohara on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:10PM (#32443956)
Lede, not lead.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by adamzochowski on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:21PM (#32444076)
The world says "leading news story" and therefore "burying the lead".

Lede is an american thing. Parent could have been a british or canadian neighbour with their british colourful spelling.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by MichaelCollins on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:23PM (#32444090)
> The spelling lede (/ˈliːd/, from Early Modern English) is also used in American English, originally to avoid confusion with the printing press type formerly made from the metal lead or the related typographical term "leading".

Huh.

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by googlryas on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:29PM (#32444153)
It's actually more about the lead paragraph, not the leading news story. If you bury the leading news story, that would imply putting it on page 13 or something. Buring the leading paragraph is putting the most important information at the end of the article where fewer people are likely to encounter it.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by 867-5309 on Saturday August 13, 2022 @04:49AM (#32448041)
>To “bury the lede” (sometimes spelled “bury the lead”) means to delay sharing the essential information in a story, and beginning with secondary details instead. The term originated in the news-writing world but is now applied widely in all fields of writing.

"lead" in this context is pronounced led not leed

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by 015a on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:28PM (#32444144)
I promise, I'm not, I'm just dumb.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by samstave on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:04PM (#32444485)
I too choose this guys dumbly leaded comment

(Lead makes you dumb)

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by highwaylights on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:48PM (#32444324)
Props for your correct spelling of colour.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by yellowapple on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:27PM (#32444714)
If anything "color" is correct, being the original Latin spelling. The Normans started misspelling it by the time they went about conquering the British Isles, but Middle English reflects both spellings.

On the other hand, English is descriptive rather than prescriptive, so both spellings might as well be equally correct.

On the third hand, they're both wrong if we want to get old school about it; no sense in catering to a bunch of French invaders when we have the perfectly good words "blee" and "hue".

Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by tempestn on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:41PM (#32444832)
Also neighbour. Somehow I suspect the inclusion of those words wasn't entirely coincidental.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by TechBro8615 on Friday August 12, 2022 @10:04PM (#32446265)
Maybe OP was making a pun about what could be buried in the ocean.
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by harmonious on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:18PM (#32444032)
"You should have written 'lede' instead of 'lead'.", not "'Lede', not 'lead'.".
Re:A meteor or alien tech: Harvard professor plans UFO exped... by caseyohara on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:25PM (#32444105)
I wrote it that way only to mirror the other corrective comment that was posted before mine.