News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by PeterisP on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:01AM (#32424972)
It's like with refrigerators - when some years ago it was both cost-efficient and even 'green' to scrap working refrigerators and replace them with new ones, because the difference in improved energy efficiency meant that the electricity cost savings outweighed the cost of the new refrigerator already within a year or two and the reduced pollution from less electricity (at the time, fossil fuels) outweighed the environmental cost/waste of making that new refrigerator.
Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by Timshel on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:17AM (#32425984)
Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible.

From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27....) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610).

You obtain a reduction of (1726-400) * 0.15 ~= 200$ a year.

I believe the average refrigerator price in the USA is over 400$ so I can't understand where the 2 years figure would come from without even talking about trying to supposedly be "green" ... And after 1988 you are down to 800kwh so you would gain something like 60$ a year.

Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by bombcar on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:43AM (#32426475)
You can get some pretty cheap fridges https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-r... - but as you suspect it's post-facto justification of a purchase someone wanted to make anyway.

Once you account for manufacturing and disposal, running the older is probably almost always better.

Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by Timshel on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:31AM (#32427267)
Yes and it even has a lower energy usage : ~300kw/h :). But since you probably upgraded from a similar one then you are probably more inline with the 60$ I mention at the end and not 200$.

From what I understand high end fridge are often less efficient because of features like ice fountain or freezer in the lower part with drawers instead of doors.

Anyway I'm thinking it's probably not just post-facto justification because it looks too much like a seller pitch and wondering where it comes from. I'm French and I had never heard it.

Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by Macha on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:50AM (#32426602)
1. Electricity in other countries is more expensive. e.g. in Ireland it is €0.35/kwh (~$0.40).

2. Other countries have smaller houses, therefore smaller kitchens therefore smaller refrigerators. Between that and higher energy efficiency standards in general, new refrigerators in my local store vary from 230kwh (A energy rating) to 260kwh (F energy rating) in power usage.

Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by Timshel on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:18AM (#32427043)
For your second point it probably applied 10/20 years ago too, then it means you have an even smaller budget to make some economy.

So even when doubling electricity price I fail to see how it could be possible to reach the two years originally mentioned.

And I believe each time I have seen this 2 years figure mentioned it was probably USA centric conversation. I'm French and I had never heard of it before.

Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by tedunangst on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:03PM (#32427763)
I plugged my parents 1960 fridge into a kilowatt and it used so little power I had to leave it plugged in for several days to make sure I got a reasonable reading. Something like 2 kwhr per day. So it would take about five years for a replacement to pay for itself if the replacement ran on nothing but happy thoughts.
Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by happyopossum on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:54AM (#32427636)
$0.15 is laughably cheap for some parts of the country... Here in California it's not uncommon to pay 3x that, so $600/yr in electricity saved by a $400 appliance is a huge deal.
Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by simfree on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:25PM (#32431911)
Even here in expensive Seattle our top rate (when you go above 500kWh a month, which is $0.1056/kWh) is $0.1307 per kWh. If you go just north the top rate falls to $0.10/kWh, and many PUDs in the state charge around half that price.
Re:Hetzner Price Adjustment by massysett on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:23PM (#32429006)
Folks make these same sort of claims on high-efficiency HVAC systems and I never get them to pencil out. The higher efficiency doesn’t pay for itself even over the entire lifespan of the system.

Inevitably the people making these claims sell HVAC systems.