> Perhaps you're missing the point though? Maybe your friends simply don't care enough to switch.

Right, I mean, that's exactly the point. I can't force someone else to install a messaging app I'd prefer to use. But if we had an actually-good, cross-platform messaging standard that was implemented in the default, stock messaging app of both Android and iOS, I would not have to depend on my friends caring or not. I could just use it, and know that they will receive the messages.

> But if we had an actually-good, cross-platform messaging standard that was implemented in the default, stock messaging app…

For billions of people that default is WhatsApp and installing it is as much a part of setting up your phone as is plugging in a SIM.

> that default is WhatsApp and installing it is as much a part of setting up your phone as is plugging in a SIM

You missed out the bit where you sign your soul over to Mark Zuckerberg.

Regular people don’t realise or care, they just want to be where their friends are.

Regular people don’t think giving up some privacy is the same as selling your soul…

For billions of people that default is WeChat/WeiXin and installing it is as much a part of setting up their phone as is plugging in a SIM.

I can safely know that any phone made today will have SMS/MMS capability, and nothing about WhatsApp/WeChat/Messenger/Telegram/...etc

The problem with moving groups over to iMessage is that you'll always leave some Android users out. Here in Spain Apple has a minority marketshare so that makes iMessage a total non-starter. But even in the US not everyone has an iPhone.

And really iMessage is not so much better than the cross-platform alternatives that it's worth leaving some friends out.

iMessage is kinda both its own messenger and SMS client. So when you text a number, I don't think you have a choice of how to send it. If the user is "Apple" it sends as an imessage, if not message, it turns the bubble green (so you know its SMS). Though in the epic trial Apple sees messaging as a "lock in feature"

" In another exchange, Apple executives discussed in 2013 whether releasing a version of iMessage for Android would make it easier to switch phone brands. iMessage is still exclusive to Apple products.

“I am concerned that the iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove and obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones,” Craig Federighi, Apple software senior vice president, wrote in 2013."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/03/epic-games-v-apple-trial-app...

> The problem with moving groups over to iMessage is that you'll always leave some Android users out.

I'm on several text chains with a mix of iOS and Android users. It works fine.

I think maybe your idea of “fine” differs from mine. It is a much worse experience than iMessage.

1. No threading is supported. If you reply, it duplicates the message being replied to.

2. “Tapbacks” (reactions) duplicate the message being reacted to with “so-and-so likes message … message”

3. Photos are reduced to a size that fits in MMS (very low quality)

4. Videos look like postage stamps

5. The chat cannot be renamed or have a photo added

6. Members cannot be added or removed without starting a new group (conversation)

7. No message effects

There may be others, but this is off the top of my head.

We can disagree and still be friends.

> 1. No threading is supported. If you reply, it duplicates the message being replied to.

Threading (using "Reply") is not supported in mixed iMessage/SMS/MMS text chains. (I'm using iOS 16, so this may have been (unwisely) supported in earlier Message versions.)

> 2. “Tapbacks” (reactions) duplicate the message being reacted to with “so-and-so likes message … message”

You can now see iPhone tapbacks on Android phones in Google Messages. I'm not sure if it's on defaultly yet. https://www.macworld.com/article/610908/google-messages-andr...

The other things you list are limitations and side-effects of the standards used. They're valid, but I consider the experience "fine" without them. If the groups I text with cared about these we would probably use WhatsApp since everyone has that. Signal would be my preference, but it's hard to change people's habits.

Didn’t know about Tapback support on Android. Wish iOS had that support for non-iMessage chats!

I think the point I want to stress is that when everyone uses iMessage, it’s as easy as texting, but just about as good as WhatsApp/etc. from a feature/user experience point of view.

Agree that we can be friends. Hopefully my comment wasn’t seen as adversarial. I just get annoyed when I see the green text bubbles, because people try to use iMessage features and it’s just bad. Non-techies don’t realize it’s different because it’s the same app, but then wonder why photos aren’t high resolution, or things don’t work as expected.

But that uses MMS which many networks here (Europe) don't support anymore, or they charge a hefty fee (even though big SMS bundles are still a thing here). Especially for international use.

I didn't realise it was still used in the US though.

MMS definitely doesn't work on my phone, though I'm not sure if this is a provisioning/settings thing or that the provider has abandoned it. I never really looked into it as I've never needed it. I just tested it once to see if it worked.

I send international MMSes from my phone(android) to my mum's iphone, from UK to Poland, and it seems to work fine. Hasn't bankrupted me yet either(I just checked and it's apparently 30 pence per text).

MMS are 50p for me, that too much to use in the same way SMS are used.

Those aren’t iMessage group chats if they’re using SMS/MMS.

They are SMS/MMS sent from iMessage. It automatically falls back on SMS/MMS when you message someone who is not signed into iMessage.

You are conflating iMessage the service with "Messages" the app. An iMessage is definitionally not an SMS/MMS.