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Re:Understanding Jane Street by quickthrower2 on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @12:18AM (#32315034)
Does a market maker consider another market maker “toxic” by your definition? I assume by “toxic” you mean too smart? Or do you mean they cheat?
Re:Understanding Jane Street by hackerlight on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @12:42AM (#32315171)
"Order flow toxicity is the measure of a trader's exposure to the risk that counterparties possess private information or other informational advantages."

Usually, flow from other MMs isn't toxic.

Toxic flow can also just be someone who's executing a very large order, even if that counterparty isn't informed. If you fill them as they are starting to work their order, you could get run over as they continue to finish that order and push the price against you.

Re:Understanding Jane Street by smabie on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @12:48AM (#32315203)
Flow from other HFT / market makers is often very toxic. They are playing the exact the game as you.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by hchz on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @01:12AM (#32315351)
Right, sure, and that game is not lifting the market, generally speaking.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by twic on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @06:03AM (#32316877)
Other market makers are often moving away from something they've seen but you haven't yet. When whatever that is hits you, the fills you got from the other market maker will look really bad.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by matred on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @12:49PM (#32321123)
Sure, but those short-term active strategies have little impact next to what big paper will lift in major macro markets.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by smabie on Wednesday August 03, 2022 @01:55AM (#32328120)
Not sure exactly what you're trying to say but let me tell you, fills from other HFT firms are highly toxic.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by smabie on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @01:28AM (#32315425)
Not aware of a market maker that also doesn't take liquidity as well. In fact, it probably would impossible to market make without also taking (you wouldn't be able to provide liquidity if your quotes were in cross with the market).

That said market makers do a lot more making than taking.

Re:Understanding Jane Street by ReggieCommaRose on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @12:32AM (#32315106)
Usually too smart, on rare occasion they cheat. MMs inherently deal with information assymetry and adverse selection because they generally stand ready providing liquidity with quotes out in the world (though obviously width matters). Toxic counterparties are parties who decide to trade against you who have a better idea about “true” price than you. They might make or they might not, depends if the degree in which they’re right overcomes the spread they crossed. Other MMs can be (and often are) toxic.
Re:Understanding Jane Street by viet1 on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @03:35AM (#32316067)
or doing latency arbitrage
Re:Understanding Jane Street by matred on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @01:02PM (#32321337)
that falls into the category of knowing the “true” price better than you do