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Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by guessbest on Monday August 01, 2022 @12:55PM (#32308891)
I personally find the who camouflage switch to every branch of service, including the navy to be bizarre. Who thought it was good idea for navy seamen to be camouflaged in the water? With that line of reasoning why didn't the airforce get their own camouflage to look like a flight line? hah

> After six years in the fleet and some controversy, the blue-and-gray cammies could be headed for Davy Jones' seabag.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/04/23/the-navy...

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by ARandomerDude on Monday August 01, 2022 @01:13PM (#32309155)
Much of this is service pride, politics, and recruiting. If the other services switch and you don't, your service looks dated, boring, and irrelevant.

Imagine the JavaScript cool kid mindset but with guns.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by russellbeattie on Monday August 01, 2022 @03:18PM (#32310834)
> Imagine the JavaScript cool kid mindset but with guns.

A more terrifying sentence than this has rarely been written.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:07PM (#32311404)
The table stakes are uniforms here, lets not blow it out of proportion.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by kragen on Monday August 01, 2022 @08:42PM (#32313940)
Until the Javascript cool kids invade your country because the USans elected a guy with a family grudge against your president. Then the Javascript cool kids decide whether to blow you into assorted body parts and pink mist in front of your parents because you tried to help a wounded child.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by WooAndMayIAdHoo on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @05:01AM (#32316528)
Don't forget......

.... the USans will also come back in 20 years to make a film about how invading your country and blowing you into a pink mist in front of your parents made their solders feel sad.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @01:34AM (#32315459)
I for one welcome our JavaScript cool kid masters
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by NovemberWhiskey on Monday August 01, 2022 @01:26PM (#32309314)
The Air Force did get their own camo - the ABU (Airman Battle Uniform) digital tiger-stripe; based on a Vietnam-era tiger-stripe uniform but with a color palette similar to the UCP; only with more blue.

In fact, it's not just their own camouflage pattern, the ABU actually had a distinctive blouse and pants that are different from the BDU that came before, or the ACU that the Army had adopted. Then they took the sage-green fleece from ECWCS Gen III (what the Army was wearing), and added the APECS Goretex parka that the Marine Corps was wearing, only in the ABU tiger-stripe rather than MARPAT.

Most of the actual battlefield airmen (i.e. the people who might reasonably expect to find themselves in combat conditions where camouflage could help like combat controller, TACP, PJ) didn't wear it anyway.

As pointed out elsewhere, this is very largely about esprit-de-corps in the context of a military organization, even if your job is actually avionics maintenance or personnel.

It does seem like a huge waste for all the services to have their own completely distinctive utility uniforms though - the pendulum is swinging back the other way now with the Army, Air Force and Space Force all back in the redesigned ACU/OCP with stitching color (black/spice-brown/blue) as the service-distinctive element.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by volumetric on Monday August 01, 2022 @03:47PM (#32311174)
I don't get why the branches in which very few folks are likely to need camo (basically anyone other than the army, then, and some sub-divisions of other branches like the marine corp) don't go with old-school olive drab or navy or something. Those single-color uniforms with a slightly dressy cut looked damn slick. I'd think that'd be better for recruiting or improving morale or whatever than the camo uniforms (which, often as not, are the butts of jokes and not considered at all appealing)

Then again, maybe those old styles only looked good when they were made with nice materials, like wool and heavy waxed canvas, and would look bad with cheap modern synthetics.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by jcranmer on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:21PM (#32311547)
One advantage of camo uniforms for working utility uniforms is they tend to be effective in hiding things like grime and mud, which consequently means you need to launder them less frequently to keep up the same appearance. If you've got a solid single-color uniform, chances are that these will stick out like a sore thumb. That was one thing that sailors liked about the old US Navy NWU (the one that camouflaged you very effectively if you fell in the water)--really good at hiding paint drips.

With regards to looking good, I don't think it's necessarily that the look good with appropriate materials, but more that they look good only when they are properly starched and the like to maintain crisp lines.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by jessaustin on Monday August 01, 2022 @05:59PM (#32312585)
...camouflaged you very effectively if you fell in the water...

This seems good in some situations and very bad in others?

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by NovemberWhiskey on Monday August 01, 2022 @06:38PM (#32313030)
>camo uniforms ... which, often as not, are the butts of jokes and not considered at all appealing

I think you'll find they're pretty appealing to a lot of the people who want to be in the military.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:08PM (#32311424)
As a sailor, I always really liked the Coast Guards working uniform.

Simple, effective, dare I say elegant.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by nordsieck on Monday August 01, 2022 @01:10PM (#32309125)
> I personally find the who camouflage switch to every branch of service, including the navy to be bizarre. Who thought it was good idea for navy seamen to be camouflaged in the water? With that line of reasoning why didn't the airforce get their own camouflage to look like a flight line? hah

Not everything the military does is about effectiveness. Sometimes senior NCOs want the enlisted to "look military", not just be effective.

Here's another example: why is the military PT (physical training) test varied by sex and age? If it was only about combat effectiveness, presumably there'd be 1 set of values that determine if someone had sufficient fitness relative to the rigors of combat (or whatever their job requires).

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by rtkwe on Monday August 01, 2022 @05:13PM (#32312105)
In addition to things other people have said there's a lot of roles that aren't combat so increasing the number of women who can qualify can fill out those roles (logistics, the reams of sundry clerical work, maintenance, etc) where physical strength isn't as critical helps fill out a volunteer army.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by jcranmer on Monday August 01, 2022 @06:09PM (#32312702)
There's a concept called 'tooth-to-tail ratio' which is the ratio of combat personnel to non-combat personnel in an army. The modern US army has a tooth-to-tail ratio of about ~1:8. This isn't necessarily a great correlation to physically demanding versus not-physically-demanding jobs, it does illustrate how tiny the front-line portion of the military actually is.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by rtkwe on Wednesday August 03, 2022 @02:31PM (#32335247)
That was the concept I was gesturing at but I couldn't remember the name. Militaries in general but the US in particular are predominantly logistics organizations with a lethal last mile delivery focus. It's part of why they're so good for responding to natural disasters in far flung island countries, they're used to delivering goods with little infrastructure at the destination.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by rcurry on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:31PM (#32311659)
The new Navy camouflage is designed to keep your uniform looking clean when you are working around paints and oils and so on. It’s purely for workplace aesthetics and not intended to hide you from anyone.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by Retric on Monday August 01, 2022 @03:56PM (#32311273)
It was a diagnostic test. Like how a loss of fuel efficiency is a sign that something is wrong with an engine, if someone can’t meet the standard something has gone wrong. Which is why it was treated as a pure pass fail.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:11PM (#32311448)
It’s a standards test, where failing can potentially get you kicked out. While also used as a diagnostic to let you know if you’re slipping, its primary and only stated purpose is to uphold an objective standard.

This makes variations by age and sex concessions to that goal, rather than design elements.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by Retric on Monday August 01, 2022 @05:34PM (#32312326)
The standards test is different. Occupational Physical Assessment Test results are Unqualified, Moderate, Significant, or Heavy which is then used to decide if someone meets an appropriate standard.

Meanwhile the Army would sometimes retain people incapable of passing the old age and gender standard. As an extreme example people with missing limbs could be retained.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by ncmncm on Monday August 01, 2022 @07:02PM (#32313230)
One word: berets.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by Taniwha on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:05PM (#32311374)
I think that seeing 'Space Force' going around in camo is even more asinine ....
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:06PM (#32311397)
Space force is still in many ways still a child of the Air Force, and follow Air Force uniform refs.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by jcranmer on Monday August 01, 2022 @06:12PM (#32312741)
Space Force does have its own dress uniforms.
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Tuesday August 02, 2022 @03:27PM (#32323172)
Yup, but these things take time. I’d imagine they’d keep most things in alignment with the AF however
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by Taniwha on Thursday August 04, 2022 @09:14PM (#32350318)
So you're arguing that they're using the camo to hide within the airforce?
Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by imwillofficial on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:05PM (#32311388)
Former US sailor here. The “camouflage” blue is no longer in use, but when it was, we jokingly referred to each other as “ocean warriors”. The reasoning for why this pattern was chosen for working use, was that it hid oil stains and fresh paint really well, letting you wear the uniform longer.

The reality? Some politician or admiral wanted to leave their mark.

Re:U.S. Army Camouflage Improvement Explained (2013) by Gordonjcp on Monday August 01, 2022 @04:49PM (#32311856)
> why didn't the airforce get their own camouflage to look like a flight line^W^W bar stool?

ftfy