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Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by js2 on Saturday November 12, 2011 @12:19PM (#3228239)
Re: "maximize" button that is being complained about in this thread. It's not a maximize button, it's a zoom button, and while I don't like its behavior, it's always been this way in OS X. From the current HIG:

Your application determines the initial size and position of a window, which is called the standard state. If the user changes a window’s size or location by at least 7 points, the new size and location is the called the user state. The user can toggle between the standard state and the user state by clicking the zoom button in the title bar. Follow the guidelines in this section so that users can have the zoom experience they expect.

Choose a standard state that is best suited for the tasks your app enables. A document window, for example, should show as much as possible of the document’s content. Don’t assume that the standard state should be as large as the current display permits; instead, determine a size that makes it convenient for users to use your app. If appropriate, you can allow users to take some app windows full screen if they want more space.

Adjust the standard state when appropriate. The user can’t change the standard state that defines a window’s initial position and size, but your app can do so, based on other settings. For example, a word processor might define a standard that accommodates the display of a document whose width is specified in the Page Setup dialog.

Respond appropriately when the user zooms. When the user zooms a window that is in the user state, your app should make sure that size defined by the standard state is appropriate in the current context. Specifically, move the window as little as possible to make it the standard size, while at the same time keeping the entire window on the screen. The zoom button should not cause the window to fill the entire screen unless that was the last state the user set.

If the user zooms a window in a multidisplay system, the standard state should be on the display that contains the largest portion of the window, not necessarily on the display that contains the menu bar. This means that if the user moves a window between displays, the window’s position in the standard state could be on different displays at different times. The standard state for any window must always be fully contained on a single display.

Don’t allow a zoomed window to overlap the Dock. You always want to make sure that users have full use of both your windows and the Dock. For more information about the Dock, see “The Dock.”

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserEx...

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by kisielk on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:53PM (#3228720)
Who cares about the justification. The major problem with it is that the behaviour is unpredictable. You have no idea what is going to happen when you push that button for a given app. In some apps, they'll go full screen. A browser might resize to fit the current web page. iTunes actually shrinks down to a mini control window.

So now in order to use this button if a useful manner the user has to remember exactly what it does for any given application.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by kamechan on Saturday November 12, 2011 @03:55PM (#3228880)
i tend not to use it for this very reason. i've wished, on more than one occasion, that a user could customize this action to be a "maximize vertically", as one could in gnome2. maybe i'm one of the few who actually used this, as it seems to have been phased out in gnome3. but i found it very useful.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by sycren on Saturday November 12, 2011 @05:19PM (#3229079)
I think I use tools like Divvy http://mizage.com/#macdivvy more than I use the zoom icon, it makes it so much easier to position windows..
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by angstrom on Saturday November 12, 2011 @06:42PM (#3229287)
Looks a little like ShiftIt (a similar utility) http://code.google.com/p/shiftit/
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by crazysim on Sunday November 13, 2011 @01:08AM (#3230139)
You want to use the github fork which is still being developed.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by angstrom on Sunday November 13, 2011 @10:17AM (#3230886)
Thanks for the notice. I get the auto updates and hadn't noticed I was on 1.5 and the google code page stops at 1.2
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by lzell on Sunday November 13, 2011 @12:05AM (#3229994)
Spectacle is an awesome open source util for this too: http://spectacle.divisiblebyzero.com
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by speleding on Sunday November 13, 2011 @08:27AM (#3230668)
Yeah, over the years Mac OS has increasingly offered functionality that was once a separate utility to install, MacDivvy is one of the few utilities left I install separately.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by earl on Saturday November 12, 2011 @07:37PM (#3229412)
One of Divvy's coolest features is you can build preset window positions and attach them to keyboard chords. So for me, cmd-shift-space brings up divvy then hitting 1 makes the app fill the window, 2 is upper left 2/3 of the screen, 3 is upper right 2/3 of the screen, etc -- I have 7 or 8 presets. Full keyboard control of window position is awesome. It's the best $13 I've ever spent.

retailmenot also claims a $20% code, so that will knock some money off. But I happily paid retail and I use it 100 times a day. It's also particularly helpful if you use an external monitor at your desk and regularly resize windows as you attach or detach the monitor.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by nitrogen on Saturday November 12, 2011 @04:24PM (#3228958)
You're not the only one to use vertical maximization. I really liked being able to middle-click the maximize button for vertical, or right-click for horizontal. It seems that's no longer the case in Gnome-3-hacked-to-look-like-Gnome-2-in-Ubuntu-11.10. I suppose it's replaced by Windows 7-style border dragging, but that's less flexible as you can only do maximize, left half, or right half.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by Elepsis on Saturday November 12, 2011 @05:56PM (#3229176)
Windows 7 actually supports explicit vertical maximization; dragging the top of a window to the top of the screen will maximize the app vertically but leave its width unchanged.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by mattbot5000 on Saturday November 12, 2011 @09:39PM (#3229651)
Double clicking the vertical resizer also maximizes vertically.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by Darr247 on Sunday November 13, 2011 @11:20AM (#3231032)
In what... Gnome3? Win7? OS/X?
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by dingle_thunk on Sunday November 13, 2011 @07:41PM (#3232306)
Win7
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by dredmorbius on Saturday November 12, 2011 @06:38PM (#3229280)
I've got that action keybound to alt-space on my desktop.

Which would be WindowMaker.

Key benefits: virtually no development, Steve Jobs designed it, but for engineers on UNIX (well, NeXT), not idiots, and it's ~20 years old, so it's balazzzzzingly fucking fast on modern HW.

Stays the fuck out of my face, lets me get shit done.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by nitrogen on Sunday November 13, 2011 @01:05AM (#3230129)
When I first saw a fully customized WindowMaker in 2002, I thought, "Wow, HollywoodOS does exist!" Back when Linux used to come with several functional desktops, AfterStep and WindowMaker (both clones of NeXTStep) were my favorite, followed by Enlightenment (the only place I've ever seen window buttons on the side of the window).

I can't explain your downvotes...

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by dredmorbius on Monday November 14, 2011 @03:18PM (#3235516)
I've played with a lot of desktops. twm, fvwm, fvwm2, WindowMaker, Enlightenment, icewm, various *boxes, GNOME and KDE through the ages, and XFCE4.

The latter is probably the closest to a replacement to WindowMaker that I've found, but it has two serious deficits:

1: No "raise on circulate" (with window contents visible) when you're alt-tab circulating through windows. Makes it really hard to find what you're looking for.

2: No pinnable window list. In WindowMaker, any arbitrary menu (or sub-menu) may be pinned to the root window. F11 (or middle mouse on root) brings up a menu of all open windows (the windowlist), which can be navigated (arrow keys or mouse), and if pinned, stays persistent while you hunt down the particular window you're looking for. Very useful when needed.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by demetris on Sunday November 13, 2011 @07:14AM (#3230559)
I’m using Gnome 3.2 on Debian Sid and vertical/horizontal maximization is still there.

To define shorcuts: Go to Settings, Keyboard, Shortcuts, Windows, and set your shortcuts.

To change the behaviour of middle-clicking or right-clicking on the title bar, install gnome-tweak-took, run gnome-tweak-tool, and go to the Windows section.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by pbhjpbhj on Saturday November 12, 2011 @04:56PM (#3229038)
>I really liked being able to middle-click the maximize button for vertical, or right-click for horizontal.//

Works on my KDE4 (over Ubuntu) .. only been using KDE since about 98/99 and never knew about this.

This goes up there with double- and triple-click +drag for selection.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by reuser on Monday November 14, 2011 @01:26AM (#3233144)
Gnome shell on Ubuntu is really misleading. On Fedora the support for it is first class so it works wonderfully, out of the box, including features like this.

(I like Unity too, but it needs work on things like multiple monitor support)

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by reuser on Monday November 14, 2011 @01:24AM (#3233140)
I do this on Gnome 3 every day! I have it bound to right-click on the titlebar
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by Bratwurst on Saturday November 12, 2011 @05:04PM (#3229055)
Still better than Windows, where it just takes up your whole screen.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by click170 on Saturday November 12, 2011 @06:17PM (#3229230)
I disagree, because taking up the whole screen is what many people expect said button to do.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by cubicle67 on Saturday November 12, 2011 @07:54PM (#3229459)
because they've come from Windows where that is the behaviour. Much like using ctrl or cmd as a modifier - when you become accustomed to one, the other takes some getting used to.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by click170 on Saturday November 12, 2011 @11:32PM (#3229923)
You would have a point there, except that the zoom button, as I believe it's called, behaves differently in different applications. An example, in some browsers clicking zoom will zoom to the page width, however in iTunes clicking zoom shrinks you to the miniplayer.

The different behaviours are confusing and difficult to remember, and not only goes against user expectations but isn't user-configurable.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by dorian-graph on Sunday November 13, 2011 @02:54AM (#3230277)
I know a lot of people who are more familiar with Mac than Windows and still don't know what that button does and simply ignores it. Along with the other small oval button that's there in pre-Lion.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by abduhl on Saturday November 12, 2011 @11:21PM (#3229898)
How is this an argument? If users expect a button to do a certain thing then that is what the button should do. Where the behavior was learned is irrelevant.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by Tycho on Sunday November 13, 2011 @04:02PM (#3231821)
How is THAT an argument? Different users will obviously expect different things.

The green button in almost every case just resizes the window to the optimal size. Whereas the maximise button simply wastes most of your screen estate (which, bizarrely, many Windows users think is actually taking advantage of their large displays, whereas its really doing the opposite).

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by DanBC on Sunday November 13, 2011 @05:35PM (#3232024)
> The green button in almost every case just resizes the window to the optimal size.

For varying values of optimal including "not optimal in any way for any user in any situation"

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by jasonlotito on Saturday November 12, 2011 @04:20PM (#3228943)
6 paragraphs, complete with 7 points, multiple states, and not messing with the almighty Dock. No wonder Apple can't figure out window management, and is resorting to the "Maximize everything!" approach.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by mambodog on Saturday November 12, 2011 @11:18PM (#3229891)
I would say a more accurate name would be the "fit window to content" button, as that is what it does.

If you're looking at a document in Pages, clicking that button will fit the window to the document, not wasting any screen space with blank unused area, but also not obscuring any of the document (screen space permitting).

The problem is that some third party applications ignore this and just implement Windows-style "maximise" behaviour. In addition, for some applications the 'content' area is likely to be larger than the screen (see Logic and Final Cut), so maximising actually makes sense.

What I imagine Apple's designers were considering is whether "maximise" behaviour actually makes sense. What are you gaining when you maximise a window? For applications such as Word, you're just filling the screen up with empty grey space on either side of the document. For most web pages, the content will appear within ~1000 pixels of horizontal space, with any additional space being wasted (or worse, the page has liquid resizing text, resulting in hard-to-read loooooooooooong lines when the window is maximised).

One argument may be that maximising a window blocks out distractions, but surely something like a full screen specific mode would be more appropriate for such a situation.

Ultimately I think that the problem is that users already have an expectation of what that button does; it is another casualty of the thoughtless interaction design that Windows has normalised to the general computer-using public.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by kblanks on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:32PM (#3228645)
For those of you who dislike the green button's behavior, I'd highly recommend the tiny app Right Zoom: http://m.lifehacker.com/5240827/rightzoom-makes-the-os-x-max.... It makes the green button maximize windows to the full screen size. More importantly for me, it gives a keyboard shortcut (CMD-ALT-E) for maximising a window. It's one of the few modifications I'd hate to be without.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by covercash on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:32PM (#3228462)
I like to refer to the zoom button as the optimize button. I find that it helps people understand its function more than zoom (which makes me think enlarge, full screen).
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by dingle_thunk on Sunday November 13, 2011 @07:41PM (#3232305)
I don't know how I lived without cinch.app
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by CamperBob on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:32PM (#3228465)
It's interesting to juxtapose your excerpt from the HIG with megamark16's comment below ("When I click the Maximize button on OSX, it doesn't actually maximize the window 99% of the time, it just picks a seemingly random size.")

What this should tell us is that a UI strategy can be "optimal" -- in the sense that the HIG passage you quoted likely emerged from a lot of intense debate between some very bright, motivated people at Apple -- yet still unintuitive and confusing to users who weren't sitting on the committee that came up with it.

If we accept Einstein's dictum that things should be as simple as possible but no simpler, then it's very hard to defend the byzantine "Zoom" button in OS X. A sufficiently-complex model may indeed appear to be a random process to someone who sees only the model's behavior.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by mthreat on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:15PM (#3228597)
Yes - I think you're talking about the Principle of least astonishment, which states that:

"when two elements of an interface conflict, or are ambiguous, the behaviour should be that which will least surprise the user"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by feralchimp on Saturday November 12, 2011 @03:18PM (#3228788)
Adherence to convention is important, but so is quality documentation. I'd argue each of those virtues are on the downswing right now. Lots of new devs, faster platform feature additions, Apple failing to lead by example...pick three and add three of your own.

TL;DR: Put thorough doc under the Help menu. Every time.

Someone mentioned Photobooth hotkey weirdness below. There's definitely a (low, low) threshold at which the presence of mystery-hotkey functionality moves from "easter eggs yay!" to "your doc sucks." Dogcow moof was all the easter egg I needed, really.

The "apps should be obvious from first launch" maxim has had awful consequences here. Are people thinking "if it needs doc I did it wrong"? Because hey kids, it needs doc whether you think it's obvious or not.

Curious whether you'd consider this to be evidence of platform doc erosion:

I develop a pretty simple Mac application and market it through the MAS. It ships with thorough instructions that are available through the standard Help menu.

Aside from the odd feature request, the only question I ever hear from users (maybe 1% of them?) is: "I launched your app and it doesn't seem to be working at all. I went to your website and there's no PDF user manual to be found. Is it broken?"

My responses to that have morphed over time into a very polite text wrapper around a screenshot of the Help menu.

Are these isolated cases of people just not thinking to look for help under the Help menu, or has the overall quality of content under the Help menu declined to the point where a subset of users just never expect useful information to be there?

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by vertr on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:16PM (#3228402)
Hold shift while clicking the zoom button to maximize the window. Edit: in Chrome only.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by gregschlom on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:45PM (#3228499)
That's one of the things I hate in OS X: many features are there, but hidden until you press some modifier key. Hold shift to maximize. Hold option while pasting to move a file instead of copying. Hold Cmd+Shift+. to see hidden files, and so on. That's the opposite of user-friendly.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by saint-loup on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:59PM (#3228546)
The worst example of this tendency? Photobooth. You can press shift and alt to disable the flash and the delay (resp.), but there's no hint of this feature anywhere. I think it's not even in the help or in any documentation.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by Hoff on Saturday November 12, 2011 @06:23PM (#3229243)
Open and Shift modifiers are listed in the help in Lion.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by hmottestad on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:24PM (#3228438)
I'm using Lion and that does nothing in Finder or in Safari.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by vertr on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:27PM (#3228447)
Right you are. It works in Chrome for me. I guess most apps don't have it.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by hamrickdavid on Saturday November 12, 2011 @01:27PM (#3228448)
Works for chrome. Doesn't work for Safari or Finder.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by neetij on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:01PM (#3228549)
Or install a utility like RightZoom.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by jlarocco on Saturday November 12, 2011 @04:33PM (#3228982)
This type of thing is my biggest complaint with OSX.

I've been using OSX as my main desktop OS for about a year now, and it's unbelievable how many simple customizations require third party products. To make it worse, a lot of them cost money.

Coming from Debian and Fluxbox I'm used to almost any possible configuration or customization being possible via /etc, the files in ~/.fluxbox/, or utilities installed using synaptic.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by cpeterso on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:50PM (#3228703)
Thanks for the tip! I didn't know about RightZoom.

Here are some little known Mac utilities I like:

* MutableCode's Breakaway let's you configure separate audio volumes (including silence) for with and without headphones.

* Stereopsis' Flux adjusts your display's color temperature to match the type of lighting in your room (e.g. daylight, halogen, fluorescent) to avoid the blindly blue glare in a dark room.

Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by webspiderus on Saturday November 12, 2011 @05:08PM (#3229065)
F.lux is actually available for all platforms! I've been using it on Windows for a while, one of my favorite small utilities.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by hollerith on Sunday November 13, 2011 @02:18PM (#3231511)
Well, not iOS yet.
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by frou_dh on Saturday November 12, 2011 @05:51PM (#3229162)
Separate volume bars for speakers/headphones are already maintained, no?
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by pja on Sunday November 13, 2011 @11:40AM (#3231078)
They certainly are on my work Mac (Snow Leopard).
Re:Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X. by xbryanx on Saturday November 12, 2011 @02:17PM (#3228606)
Option/Alt + 'Plus button' does that in iTunes.