Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by TameAntelope on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:11PM (#32253209)

I think you're taking this way further than anyone actually involved would. IF what you're saying ever did even come close to occurring, we both know Google would shut it down quickly. Not just because it's horrible, but because it's also bad for business, and they've shown a propensity to protect data when it would be used as you hypothesize here.

Google is smart enough to know that "snitching" on its users is bad for business.

Think "track a burglar as he moves through a neighborhood" not "snoop (illegally) on the contents of people's mail".

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jjkaczor on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:33PM (#32253564)

"I think you're taking this way further than anyone actually involved would"

Just because you currently seem to have a "failure of imagination" does not mean that law enforcement, corrupt/facist/dystopian government officials or even unscrupulous employees within the tech sector itself will not absure their observational powers now or in the future.

Or maybe you just haven't been paying attention to the news for the last "n" decades.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by TameAntelope on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:42PM (#32257404)

I have a failure of actual data of problems occuring.

We all deal with "sky is falling" person on our development teams, and it's pointless doomsaying then as it's pointless doomsaying now.

When the bad things happens, we can react. Until then, let's try to stay reasonable.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jakelazaroff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:47PM (#32254806)

> Think "track a burglar as he moves through a neighborhood" not "snoop (illegally) on the contents of people's mail".

It’s not illegal, though. Google is (presumably) fully legally in the clear to just hand over footage to police. That means that, if Google decides to hand over your footage to the police, anything on tape can be used as evidence against you. And Nest offers indoor security cameras, so your entire house could be fair game.

> Google is smart enough to know that "snitching" on its users is bad for business.

Is it bad for business? That’s not clear. Your whole argument is that this is fine so long as you think the likelihood of abuse is low. My guess is that it actually won’t hurt Google’s business at all, even as we start to discover police misusing this.

“It only happens to a handful of people! And anyway, they were [doing drugs/stealing/etc], so they deserved it. It’ll never happen to me!”

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by TameAntelope on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:44PM (#32257429)

It's illegal to go through someone else's mail, and that was the hypothetical you proposed.

My argument is not that it's fine as long as the likelihood for abuse is low, my argument is that it's fine as long as there hasn't been any actual abuse. When something does happen, we can respond to it.

Until then, it's not reasonable to go through a bunch of worst-case scenarios.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jakelazaroff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:00PM (#32259183)

My hypothetical is that if your mail is in the footage Google turns over to the police sans warrant, they can use it as evidence against you. That’s not “going through someone else’s mail”.

All I’ll say is that I’d prefer to stop the thing that will very clearly harm someone before that actually happens, not pretend we haven’t seen a million times before what happens when you give police more power.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by TameAntelope on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:37PM (#32259438)

And I'm grateful people like you aren't actually able to implement pre-crime divisions!

It sounds arrogant, to me, to be so sure you know what the outcome will be of a given situation, considering all of the necessary ingredients for that outcome have existed for some time and what you claim is "inevitable" has still not happened.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jakelazaroff on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:13AM (#32260711)

I think we’ve reached an impasse. I’d just like to point out that advocating that companies not give police access to our private lives except when forced to by a warrant is basically the exact opposite of “pre-crime”.

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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by TameAntelope on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:54AM (#32260886)

It fits the very definition of a pre-crime because you don't have a problem with how they're currently using that information (sparsely to catch criminals), only with how they might, in the future, use that information.

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