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Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:37AM (#32239778)
While I generally share your view of NFTs, I don't think your dismissal of them is really fair.

I think what it really boils down to is that, in the "real world", consumers are willing to pay many, many millions of dollars solely based on provenance. That is, one mediocre painting may be worth a couple hundred dollars, but if it can be validated that the painting was actually painted by some famous (dead) grand master, that painting is now suddenly worth millions of dollars, even though nothing about that painting has changed.

So, what NFT boosters were arguing was that, if people are willing to pay millions of dollars for provenance in the physical world, why not the digital world? In my belief it's that humans have evolved to view 2 distinct physical object, even if they are exactly the same, as separate - an exact copy of a painting so that it is indistinguishable from the original to the human eye would still be a different painting and not have the provenance of the original. For digital jpegs, we don't view them that way - the same image on two different monitors is "the same image". For physicists out there it's kinda like the difference between fermi dirac statistics and bose einstein statistics.

Thus, while I agree that NFTs are all scams, I think we should also be asking the question of why we are willing to assign so much value to provenance in the physical world - that seems crazy to me, too.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by ceejayoz on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:39AM (#32239802)
I think the dismissal is fair.

For physical objects, scarcity is an unescapable fact. It would be great if we could right-click on some Michelin starred chef's food and have another copy of it, but we can't.

NFTs unnecessarily add artificial scarcity to something that didn't really need it.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by bparsons on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:58AM (#32240025)
And they didn't even do that. You could still view and reproduce a jpeg without paying for it. It was a classic ponzi scheme.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:02PM (#32240074)
> For physical objects, scarcity is an unescapable fact.

I disagree. It is pretty possible now to create a replica of a painting that would be indistinguishable to the human eye from a distance of, say, 2 feet.

Yes, the object could still be distinguished by other means, but presumably the only reason we enjoy art like paintings is for their visual effect - there is literally no other reason to appreciate it.

So my point is that the scarcity for the reason we value it in the first place is actually not an inescapable fact for something like a painting.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by no_wizard on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:41PM (#32240621)
Art is something we can appreciate the beauty of and for that alone, we don't per se need originals.

Arguably, however, someone wanting to own the original painting by a well regarded artist (say a van Gogh) you're stepping into Veblen goods territory[0] as its a display of wealth, status and prestige. This is what NFTs are trying to achieve

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by andreilys on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:19PM (#32240298)
You can pay a college art student to replicate the Mona Lisa, but the value will be nowhere close to the original.

Artificial scarcity is merely a signal/status booster in a virtual world where post-abundance is present.

If you are in a VR world and want to mingle with other fellow “tribe members”, what signal do you go off of that’s hard to replicate?

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by com2kid on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:59AM (#32240049)
Paintings are one of those goods where we are able to make almost exact reproductions that, unless you get up close with a magnifying glass, are visually identical to the original.

The scarcity is not in the image itself, it is in a combination of image + canvas.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by tshaddox on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:07PM (#32240139)
> For physical objects, scarcity is an unescapable fact.

But when we’re talking about very expensive paintings, the physical scarcity of the raw materials plays essentially no role in the valuation. Provenance is everything. Sure, the canvas and paint is scarce, but the cost of canvas and paint is vanishingly small. Make no mistake, provenance is the reason people pay lots of money for original paintings.

Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by pxue on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @12:05PM (#32240111)
values of NFT is derived on the eagerness for the buyer to signal virtue. It's the same reason a gamer would spend $20,000 in purchases in game items/loot boxes.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by giaour on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:48AM (#32239898)
Some of the value people associate with provenance comes from the mystery Ave human drama involved in establishing a provenance chain. (Think of Byatt’s Possession or the way a scholarly dispute raises the profile of a work of art.) Any digital record really drains the romance out of the whole process.
Re:Shopify to lay off 10% of workers in broad shake-up by ryanSrich on Tuesday July 26, 2022 @11:46AM (#32239886)
I don’t know if it’s provenance or attention. My gut says attention as many small NFTs projects start out with no provenance, and as the attention around the project builds, so too does the hype and price. This article is worth a read - https://cobie.substack.com/p/tokens-in-the-attention-economy...