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Re:OpenXanadu by Animats on Sunday July 24, 2022 @03:50PM (#32216997)
Everything is pay per view in Xanadu. It's a micropayment model. When you read, you pay, and the payments are distributed, word by word, to all the creators of the input text. It's for storing expensive information in expensive computers to be sold expensively. Think of it as a successor to Mead Data Central, Lexis, and Nexis[1], early centralized and expensive information retrieval systems. (Those are still around, merged into Reed Elsevier, publisher of expensive books and journals.)

The technology became cheap enough that such a business model was unnecessary. Although it was considered in the early days of the Web. Early thinking was that you'd have to subscribe to everything, and there would be charges on your Internet bill for each service, like cable TV. You'd pay to subscribe to a search engine. The New York Times went that route successfully, but few others did.

I knew some of the people behind Xanadu in the 1980s. They were mostly everything-is-a-market libertarians.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LexisNexis

Re:OpenXanadu by jdougan on Monday July 25, 2022 @03:17AM (#32221434)
Not exactly. It is a lot closer to pay for first view.

https://xanadu.com/xuTco.html is Ted's most recent thoughs on thematter.

Re:OpenXanadu by Xanni on Sunday August 07, 2022 @12:15AM (#32373866)
Note that prices could always be zero - the reason to include micropayments was to try and get access to the vast majority of existing culture that is currently only available for a fee. Ted wanted to bring in existing rightsholders rather than fight them. Unfortunately as it turned out that was never going to work. Just look at how hard the film industry fought home video, among many other examples of established industries fighting disruptors!

Ted once called me a libertarian, and I immediately set him straight. Not even close, dude.

Re:OpenXanadu by kwatsonafter on Sunday July 24, 2022 @05:12PM (#32217790)
A very informative post. I think a lot of the young people hip to Nelson miss this point. I'm no longer a, "free and open everything" kind of person but Nelson is far more of a BioShock character than you'd think. He's not a baby boomer in any sense; he's a child of Welles, Hawks, and Howard Hughes. I could see him being old enough not to freak out over Birth Of A Nation.

God bless that crazy bastard. We used to make Americans so well.

Re:OpenXanadu by uncletammy on Sunday July 24, 2022 @07:23PM (#32218827)
Its not about cheap vs expensive. It's about overall incentives within the system. A read should be as valuable as a write. At the very least, a read shouldn't be completely free.
Re:OpenXanadu by _carbyau_ on Monday July 25, 2022 @12:55AM (#32220606)
Depends what I am reading.

If it is useful to me, then incentive modelling would suggest I should pay. If I get useless information, then I won't want to pay. If I get advertising, then they should pay.

But how do I tell what value I will extract from it before I have read it? Information/concepts/ideas are not like physical objects at all.

Re:OpenXanadu by hutzlibu on Monday July 25, 2022 @02:04AM (#32221017)
Yup, that never made sense to me, either.

There might be ways to help with that, by free trial of x amount of words etc. but this would be hard to consistently implement.

Also, there is clearly information so dense, it is way more valuable, than some shallow, mindless post.

So the creators would have to up a price for every sentence? And the readers get that information, before they read and link?

Alltogether just way too complicated and impractical.

Re:OpenXanadu by leadpan2 on Monday July 25, 2022 @01:30PM (#32227866)
Animats, bless you for posting this every time Xanadu comes up. There's always plenty of discussion on the man himself and his peculiarities. Not enough looking at the context of the times this was conceived, the problems Xanadu was expected to resolve, or the perspective and philosophies of the developers that ended up baked into the very structure written into it.
Re:OpenXanadu by tadfisher on Sunday July 24, 2022 @10:49PM (#32220050)
This sounds eerily like web3.
Re:OpenXanadu by Animats on Monday July 25, 2022 @03:30PM (#32229748)
Kind of, but the crypto crowd can't do micropayments. Blockchains are too expensive to run to process payments in the penny range.
Re:OpenXanadu by Xanni on Sunday August 07, 2022 @12:44AM (#32373968)
Much less the fraction of a penny range Xanadu wants!